Over 60 class structure

[steve welte]

Oh boy do I irritate people I guess. That was not my intention. I think I have gone a long way to try to promote Vintage karting and no one should be unhappy if we choose to move out of a class. I probably just didn't state it correctly. However vintage karting started a long time before I knew it was back and I didn't write any of the rules of the time. The rules were open to modifying engines. I did that. Our fastest engine I built is only .030 over a stock bore 49. It is stock stroke. We have been beaten by some and beaten many. Better drivers than myself were in the class at one point. At one race we counted up the National Championships that the 49 class drivers had. We came up with 14. That's a loaded field. Pretty much everyone has moved on and I haven't run it for 2 years. Shawn will run the last one at SR. Rather than be offended get in your kart and run. Have fun, run hard and fill an empty class. Who knows maybe I'll end up in the over 60 since I'm way over that age, and this thread was supposed to be about that. At 71 I may have to slow down at some point. Ahhhh until the engine starts. I guess no matter what you say next you are remembered for the first reference. Rosanne got fired and so am I.

[Tom Day]

Yamaha classes have the most entries and I see it getting bigger. The upside is we need those entries to keep vintage alive and support the events. Downside is there may become too many entries so if the guys that are over 60 would move to a over 60 Yamaha class that might be a good thing and use the 79 or older karts. I am not in favor of them being part of the current over 60 class but they could be ran with it and scored separately like is being done with the Macs and West Bends in the Sportsman Sidewinder class.

[ernie shores]

Oh boy do I irritate people I guess. That was not my intention. I think I have gone a long way to try to promote Vintage karting and no one should be unhappy if we choose to move out of a class. I probably just didn't state it correctly. However vintage karting started a long time before I knew it was back and I didn't write any of the rules of the time.  The rules were open to modifying engines. I did that. Our fastest engine I built is only .030 over a stock bore 49. It is stock stroke. We have been beaten by some and beaten many. Better drivers than myself were in the class at one point. At one race we counted up the National Championships that the 49 class drivers had. We came up with 14. That's a loaded field.  Pretty much everyone has moved on and I haven't run it for 2 years. Shawn will run the last one at SR. Rather than be offended get in your kart and run. Have fun, run hard and fill an empty class. Who knows maybe I'll end up in the over 60 since I'm way over that age, and this thread was supposed to be about that. At 71 I may have to slow down at some point. Ahhhh until the engine starts. I guess no matter what you say next you are remembered for the first reference. Rosanne got fired and so am I.

Steve.
   I appreciate your candid reply. My point was as we get older even very talented karters know their limitations and run classes that they feel comfortable running in. It has nothing to do with experience, kart or motor, its all able the fun factor. 

Ernie

[Ken Wooldridge]

Oh boy do I irritate people I guess. That was not my intention. I think I have gone a long way to try to promote Vintage karting and no one should be unhappy if we choose to move out of a class. I probably just didn't state it correctly. However vintage karting started a long time before I knew it was back and I didn't write any of the rules of the time.  The rules were open to modifying engines. I did that. Our fastest engine I built is only .030 over a stock bore 49. It is stock stroke. We have been beaten by some and beaten many. Better drivers than myself were in the class at one point. At one race we counted up the National Championships that the 49 class drivers had. We came up with 14. That's a loaded field.  Pretty much everyone has moved on and I haven't run it for 2 years. Shawn will run the last one at SR. Rather than be offended get in your kart and run. Have fun, run hard and fill an empty class. Who knows maybe I'll end up in the over 60 since I'm way over that age, and this thread was supposed to be about that. At 71 I may have to slow down at some point. Ahhhh until the engine starts. I guess no matter what you say next you are remembered for the first reference. Rosanne got fired and so am I.

Steve.
   I appreciate your candid reply. My point was as we get older even very talented karters know their limitations and run classes that they feel comfortable running in. It has nothing to do with experience, kart or motor, its all able the fun factor. 

Ernie

Ernie, Your right and that is why I am so in favor of these two changes. Much more fun involved with these and a lot less thrashing all weekend! If one chooses to, they can still stick with the current way as this does not delete or change ANYTHING in the current class structure, just good adds for the karters in my opinion.

[ted johnson]

Why not just run Yamahas in every class so in a few years, all classes will be all Yammie? TJ

[David Luciani]

good point ted then we can call it vintage yamaha racing!!

while i can understand the desire to grow vintage karting i fail to see the need to make it grow faster then it already is right now.
especially if we dilute vintage to the point where it just becomes cheap obosolete go kart racing.

i've been involved with vintage for a while now and i personally am amazed at how much it's grown.
when i started there were maybe three events a year all far far away.

we discussed all sorts of things on the forums like 
how will we rebuild engines and karts when we run out of
tires  -  rings  -  pistons  - seals  -  gaskets  -  clutches the list went on.

A BIG  fear was always about the forums disappearing.
back then forums would crash and go off line routinely we had personal email and phone numbers and we'd call each other panicing about WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FORUM!!!
often they'd be off line for DAYS.

back then, to me , the internet was kinda voodoo majic anyway.
 i talked with and met people i'd never have met otherwise every day.

we argued and discussed EVERYTHING About vintage karts.
the arguments and personality wars about what and where vintage was headed were epic.
at one point tension ran so high that vka and vkca became rival clubs.
that was then and we are a calmer bunch now or maybe just a bit older?
regardless
as time passed we learned ALOT both about the internet and how to create events.
 as we went parts were repopped restored or recreated.
whole chassis were repopped , new pistons and rings were made seals cross referenced gaskets recreated.

the EVENTS,  man the events have gotten insaner every year. 
140+ ENTRIES in several venues this year.
 back then we doubted there were 300 vintage guys willing to show up to ANY event through the whole season.
attendance back then was considered good if you broke 40 drivers now that's considered a bit small.
TBO held the most attendees record for years and only recently have others gotten as big.
so vintage is a growing for sure.


of course there seems to be a vintage kart something somewhere nearly every warm weekend available.
more  and more keep popping up.
so as this happens we will see a slight drop in event attendance not because there's less drivers more because there's more local options.

my point with all this it happened at a pace we'd never have predicted 15+ years ago and is gaining momentum.
to me MANAGING the classes we have in a safe and well planned way is a good approach to growing .
the willi-nilly add karts to a class to grow it needs to stop.
and polling only vka members is extremely short sighted.

VKA needs to consider what THE drivers in the class want in their class and please ask EVERYONE not just VKA drivers.
many who attend EVENTS aren't VKA club members BUT THEIR PRESENCE IS VITAL TO VINTAGE KARTING GROWTH.

VKA as a club is definitely the last word in rules regardless of how they avoid admitting that idea. 
the responsibility of vintage karting growth is a big one and they have done an excellent job so far.
in the future i hope they'll consider the outsiders point in their ruling about class changes

anyway,
 imho i think maybe we should cool down a little about changing things "to get more drivers".
let the newbes find the level they want to run in and the class they like.
adding extra kart options to already existing classes has to be done VERY carefully or you'll see the class fade out as many already have in the past.
to me yammies already have two classes a stock class and a competetive class.
if those classes were overloaded say 30+ entries at a race i'd say maybe we could consider more yammie classes but at about 15-20 per grid we're right where those classes need to be.

rant over
d  
btw i was reading my post and noticed my pix i use.
it's really old one that was taken way back then. 
i STILL HAVE DARK HAIR IN THAT PIX. 
IT'S MOSTLY GRAY NOW 
WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED??

[ted johnson]

Well, Grumpy, just like Vintage Karting is "growing up", so is Big Dave! Ted

[Tom Day]

Here in the Midwest the over 60 looks like it is dying. I would be interested in learning how many entries per event you guys out EAST get. If anyone attends all or most of the Eastern events please chime in here with some accurate numbers.

[ted johnson]

It has much to do with the fact that kart guys like to run what they ran when they were young. The guys who ran a Go Kart 800 with a Homelite K-92 are getting too old to drive hard, and the next "generation" is wanting to run a Margay Concept with a KT-100. It's logical, but very discouraging to we older types who still want to run that GK 800 with the Homelite. I'm not sure if there IS a solution. That's why I prefer events like TBO or Tucson, where we all just RUN and it really doesn't matter if we're competitive. Thank God, as long as we have a Jim Donovan and a Dean Kanocz, we can at least EAT!! As we get older, we just wanna RIDE a go kart a few more times before we're forced to hang it on the garage wall.   Ted

[Mel Ruffner]

I agree with Ted, my days of competive all out racing is over. I just want to hang out with fellow vintage karters run some laps and tinker with my old kart. I have a older a bone with a stock mc5 and wanted to tun it in historical class. BOth events I went to. I was the only historical entrant so I was grouped with much faster karts so I had to be very carefull not to get in there way. is there anyone still racing rear historical ? Or how about chainsaw motors? I may of got into this to late as most of the karts were sidewinders and Yamaha motors. I may have to just run tbo. THanks for letting me share my thoughts.