The Bench Racers Journal

[Terry Bentley]

Chapter 125

If you wandered what ever happened to that Hornet S-85 kart frame that was picked up a couple of weeks ago, well I will tell you now. OK journal here is the reason I have not made any mention of it until this very entry.

Well first I had put that frame completely out of my mind. Not really, it was still there in my thoughts. Somewhere way back in my mind. My grey matter is always figuring out ways to make the missing parts. Just like when we copied the Cates kart so Steve had his own to race.

Way back in the dark reaches of my brain, it was already past a lot of the obstacles in how to build a set of matching spindles. Instead of making nearly exact copies of the original parts, I was working on alternative ways making slight adjustments to build parts with what materials I already had to work with.

Since the S-85 also has Reverse Elliot style spindles, I was thinking about making them from the materials we used for the Cates. The spindle tube on front axle was longer on the S-85, but not so much a little alteration would make so much of a difference.

My Cates frame has the original spindles. They actually look wimpy, but no problems so far. These are made from 3/16 inch thick strap folded over to form a "C". I would consider something more beefy if having to replace these later on.

The spindle stubs use very thick 3/4 inch tubing that is threaded just on the very end. Those Timken bearings do not ride on any of the threads at all. We ended up getting longer bolts, then cutting the threads back just long enough that the nut to ride flush on the end for Steves spindles.

The bolts ended up longer than my spindles. There was no other way with keeping the bearings from running on the threads. Since Steve is not using the same brand wheels, the stub axes could have been shorter, but my wheels would not fit his spindles. We decided to add spacers here too.

Now both sets of wheels will interchange on our karts. But Steve can adjust his tread width. This is something that could even help. Maybe find out one of these days if we ever get that next practice in.

For the S-85 spindles, I dont know yet if they will be 5/8 or 3/4 diameter. But the spindle frame is cut from flat plate then bent to form the channel. The arm is part of the flat cut plate, so no extra welding is needed.

The copycat Cates spindles are made from 2 1/2 inch square thick wall tubing. These spindles for Steves kart will work on mine if washers are used for spacers. Dad had suggested this in case we needed to make replacements. He also mentioned it would be a simple way to change the weight of front end bias, if ever the need. I had never thought something like this. But how much could such a small amount really help?

So Steves spindles will work on my kart with spacers, but he is out of luck if needing a replacement at the track for now. I guess building a pair of extras would be a good idea. Just add to the never ending list of things to do.

So back to why I brought all of this up right now. While digging out behind the garage looking for some scrap sheet metal for the throttle linkage, there was the Hornet S-85. It was leaning up against the garage just as lonely as you could imagine.

This is when all of those things in the back of my mind came pouring out in broad daylight. It seemed so simple right then how to mock up a set of spindles for the frame. I didnt even need an old one to measure or copy from.

The spindle tube on S-85 frame measured right at 2 3/8 inch long. So the box tubing would need to be about 2 7/8. Not a size I would find available around here anywhere. But if I cut down the tubes a little bit shorter then use the same square box tubing as we did on Steves kart, problem solved.

It took everything I had inside me to walk away, and fast. When I start thinking like this it is too easy getting sidetracked and loose sight of the existing projects at hand. Much as I could have wasted the rest of this afternoon messing around with the Hornet S-85, it could not happen. So I needed to redirect my focus back on our karts and trying to get them ready to race once again. Anyway........

I was so very pumped after Mr Jack Peck had given me this worn out frame. I met and talked with him for like ever that Saturday night when we went to the South 77 Strip. We had just finished up working so hard on the converted over and assumed to be a Simplex frame for Chris.

Jack Peck had changed out this early version of the S-85 chassis with the latest model for a customer. Then delivered it to him at the track. But the customer had no interest in his old frame. Jack Peck did not want to drag the worn out frame back to the shop, so offered my dad to take off his hands and give to me.

It wasnt until the races were over before dad had even mentioned anything about Jack Peck offering up the frame. So why have I not been wrapped up with one more project to get involved with?

I wanted so bad to start making parts right away and build up this frame just to try out. Watching Richard drive the S-85 around the track was almost magic. He won the three classes the karts were entered in that night. Actually dominated two of them with completely out of the box stock claiming engines.

So after Chris had left the next evening, I was totally focused on my new to me old worn out frame. I even took some close up pics to add here in my journal. My mind was going overboard thinking about fabricating all of the parts here in the garage and have a potentially great handling kart to try out. That is right up to when reality hit me square in the face.

Except for the few minutes I took the pictures, everything else raced around in my head for only seconds. Then feet planted back on the ground after staring across the floor at that box Chris had left over in the corner of the garage. Before getting too curious, I first decided to run by Franks house and check up on the progress he had made on his kart.

After this slight waste of time, I returned home. Then thinking about how or if any of those old parts Chris left me could be put to use. Then after opening the box did I realize Chris had given me a new set of tires. Talking about leaving a big lump in my throat. At this very moment, I realized my focus needed to stay on getting our three engines built and making another practice day at the track, just soon as possible.

So the Hornet S-85 was totally wiped from my mind and put on the back burner. Until reading that track test on the Bates Eagle, I had really pushed it way down in to the dark reaches of my memory hole. I even put the frame outside behind the garage so it would not be so enticing or distracting walking past it every day. Temptation is such a terrible thing.

Hornet S-85 front

Hornet S-85 side

Hornet S-85 mount

Hornet S-85 rear

These pictures were taken with that roll of free color film that had already expired. May even be that first roll. The color of kart frame is almost like a baby blue. Not my first or fifth choice of a color for a kart. I might even choose this grey color in picture before a baby blue. Oh well, not a big deal. The frame needs some minor work before spending time and fabricating all of the missing parts.

I need to figure out a good way to check making sure it is straight and not tweaked. There is no way I can work on this frame and also expect the other karts will get finished any time soon. So this project is staying on the back burner until further notice.


Bates Eagle1

Bates Eagle2

The article in Popular KARTING was decent and had some good information about this kart. It would be so cool to get a chance to test drive, but dont expect to see one of them around the local tracks.

I realized that this article is more likely from much earlier in 1960. So you can see the out of date things like 1/2 inch steering shaft and welded on steering wheel. Even my early model Hornet S-85 still has a 1/2 inch shaft, since it was built last year. But an easy fix to update and make safer and have a better hold on a new style steering wheel.

If you strip both the S-85 and this Eagle down to bare frames, there is a lot of similarity. But now thinking about modifying the S-85 to be more like the Eagle sounds interesting to me. I am thinking about adding the front porch extension and moving tie rods and linkage behind the steering shaft.

Moving your body weight slightly forward and making room for legs sure seems a smart way to go. I still dont understand why so many karts have a wide steering support. 

Since I have to do repairs on the rear section, and also removing that welded on motor mount, another idea is cropping in my head. I dont know if the Hornet s-85 or Eagle has a shorter wheel base, but may shorten this S-85 if longer.

Those cool looking swing mounts on the newest version of S-85 would be so easy to make using some some 3x6 box tubing. Just a bunch of cutting and hand fitting to make it happen. This will put the engines directly over the axle. If wheelbase is longer, it could possibly be shortened a bit.

So that is why the frame is sitting outside and out of sight. I dont have the time right now it would take to make the parts and modify this frame. But something to think about later on.

Now you know why I have not followed up with anything about the S-85. I cant work on this right now. Not until after the engines are running and our next test day has taken place. But after all that is done it will be time to finally go racing again. Yea-ha!

Just in the time it took me to add a page to my journal, I have worked out so many more details needing to make the parts for my future Hornet S-85. Gads, I have to stop this madness!