05-26-2022, 05:56 PM
Chapter 106
Frank, even tho your kart handles decent enough right now, it is a good time to consider those upgrades. Just do it all at once. I noticed a little scrape on your frame right there. It looks just like the scrape I saw in a picture where the HOTROD magazine had done a track test on the first Super K.
Just think Frank, not only is your kart a prototype, it could be the very same one they tested. This could make your kart worth a fortune. Well possibly in about 60 years. Maybe you should wrap it up real good. Then store it in your attic for the next half century. Wadda you think?
Frank only gave me the reverse of some rude hand gesture. It wont take any imagination to guess as to which one. I didnt react to it, since not familiar with yankee sign language. But figured to mean about the same as the other one.
Oh yea Frank, one more thing while it is on my mind. Thanks for helping out Chris last week. He made his own bearing hangers from that template and his kart is actually finished. So now he is waiting on me to do some improvements to his engine before we can get to the track just yet.
Who is Chris? Is it someone I know? I dont know anyone by that name. So why would I do a favor for someone I dont even know? How dumb do you think I am anyway?
Gee Frank, I am not going to touch that one. But Chris is my other friend that came over with me last week when we tore your kart all to pieces as you claim. I just wanted to thank you for him since without making those bearing hangers, we would still be waiting on the order to be delivered. That is if he bought new ones instead of making his own.
Right now I cant think if there was any other parts we talked about. But sure with that engineers mind of yours, you will remember everything else sooner or later. But probably not until after you already placed your order.
Since you dont care to remember that Chris came over last week, I will tell you what we did anyway. He has an older model that what we think is a Simplex kart. It is definitely not a Challenger. But most of the parts appear to be made by Simplex.
It originally had a dead axle. We converted over to a live axle and even adjusted the front end geometry so it might even handle now. The steering shaft was just a welded up piece of 3/4 inch tubing, so had to be changed out just like on your kart. After some other minor adjustments, the frame was painted and finally ready to assemble.
Chris stayed focused on his kart this whole weekend and got it all put back together with very little help from me. I hope all of the improvements dont mess up the kart like what happened to yours. You know since we didnt have much for a jig to set it up in. But maybe it will settle down after some track time like you think that your frame did and be just fine. Who knows.
Well I am not a big believer in doing those types of upgrades on frames that were never engineered to be that way. That chassis was designed around a positive engagement single locking wheel. Converting over like you said, may very likely be the worse mistake you ever made.
Frank why do you always think like that? Cant you just say chain drive or dead axle like most other knuckle heads like you label everyone as? And besides, most of last years karts were just the older models upgraded instead of totally redesigned. But there are some really cool new karts that have come out this year.
I have noticed some of them follow a similar layout. There are still plenty of under the axle frames. But right now it seems a lot of the new ones are going frame over the axle with a sort of drop down seat box. But the Cates is the only one I have seen anywhere racing for a while so far with a fiberglass bucket seat.
Frank what would you think of a flat frame with axle mounted above but using a fiberglass bucket seat instead of a built in style? Do you think it would even work? Or am I missing something?
Yea, I say you are missing something. The current trend of frame over axle is something that is just the next generation of karts. A more professional level build too. I expect this is the direction it will continue and just get better. A new proven design that is going to become the standard in future chassis development.
Frank something else I have noticed too. Well it went real trendy last year, then sort of fizzled out. They were calling it the forward look. A whole bunch of newly designed frames with live axles, had sort of moved the driver forward. Maybe to better suit different engines behind the seat. I dont really know the reason, just guessing.
Most of these karts have extended the frame in front of the axle. The steering support seems to be going to the narrow type, so your knees are not all bent up so much. I mean it doesnt affect me right now, since I am not very tall yet. But for bigger drivers it makes sense to have some more leg room. I sure would not be comfortable all scrunched up trying to get the kart around the track licking my kneecaps doing it.
Some of the karts looked cool and well thought out. But if I made one like those, it makes sense to keep the wheelbase short as possible. Then just add enough length, in front of the axle for your legs to be more comfortable. You know sort of like a front porch on the kart. This is a good description of it.
This small extension really doesnt even need to be wide as the main frame rails. But by moving your body weight forward slightly shouldnt hurt handling, since it puts more weight on the front wheels. Could you now get away with less caster or king pin inclination if there is more weight on the front end?
The one thing I really like about the extended front rails is allowing all of the steering parts to sit behind the front axle and completely out of the way. So Frank what am I missing on all of this?
Well just from bench racing it sounds all well and good. But you dont see the fastest teams and karts out there right now set up anything like you are talking about. That should be your first warning. With the steering mounted behind the front axle could completely mess up your geometry.
I would have to crunch the numbers to figure just how bad it might be, but that just takes too much time. There are just too many variables needed to factor in making it even more complex. I would think since the fastest karts running have not moved in that direction sort of proves the idea is a complete failure.
One more serious thing you are completely overlooking. Your feet are totally exposed that way. Did you ever stop to think of that? At least before the steering components helped protect your feet. This "NEW" way (Yes Frank did use hand quotes when saying this) you are so excited about sure puts you feet in real danger. Imagine all of the foot and leg injuries at one of the more professional sanctioned races that could happen. You just dont think.
Wow, Frank, a lot of kart manufacturers are already adding front bumpers. Would that not solve the problem now? Not only protecting your feet, but also no longer tearing up your tie rods either. What am I missing here again Frank?
One more thing Frank, my Cates kart uses a fiberglass seat. Oh yea it also has a front bumper too. Since you are knocking some of the new style frame designs. No other kart since it came out two years ago until just recently does. It is also cut and welded square tubing. I dont see other kart manufacturers moving that direction. Does that make it a complete failure?
Did mine or Steves kart have any issues handling? I sure dont remember you barking a single complaint about either of them. After a few squirrely laps, you sure seemed to adapt to the differences on how it drives compared to what you are used to driving. I sure dont have to throw my body around to make it handle like you keep trying on every lap in your kart.
I never told you this, but the fastest lap times you have turned out at the track is on my kart. You were telling me how fast your kart was going to be, but was not nearly fast as when you were following Steve driving my kart.
Once again you are only thinking things thru with incomplete data. I may have been faster on your kart. But you claim that is only when I was following your buddy, Sturgen. You didnt factor in I was drafting him in order to run that fast. Not so smart without taking in all of the factors which allowed that to happen. Incomplete facts lead to incorrect conclusions.
But Frank, when you were driving your own kart, the lap times were slower when following Steve. His name is not Sturgen. But you know that. After he passed you, then you pulled in behind, your times did get much better after a few laps. But you even improved your times after driving my kart later in the day.
Again I have to make a correction kid. I followed your buddy, to get more acquainted with the track. It is always easier to follow someone than to lead. He cuts a big hole in the air and my speed increases a lot. Once I was more familiar with the layout, naturally my times would drop substantially. I told you I have a lot of driving experience. Just need a few laps on a new track and I can get really fast.
You may not even know this, but I was pushing your buddy Stefan hard, making him drive faster than he was running before. As I got acclimated to the track, my times dropped substantially. I can tell within a second how fast my times are. I could have almost passed him just about anywhere on the track. But I wanted to get back used to driving in traffic, not just take the lead and run away with it.
That is how you become a good and fast racer by adapting to all types of situations. I thought by now you would have figured that out for yourself. I also told you with some good advice from me, I could really help Stofer improve his driving. I can see a lot of minor mistakes he is making when pushing him really hard like I was doing during that last practice.
You know Frank......? Oh heck never mind, I give up. Maybe you can confirm all of this the next time we make it out there to practice. I am ready to start keeping accurate time sheets on everything we change out or adjust. After I get Chris comfortable on his kart, then we can all run a bunch of laps together swapping places like when really racing.
Well Jerry, uh junior, like I am going to keep telling you, take my advice. With some slight adjustments to your buds kart, uh his name is Stanley, yea that is right, I can make his kart a lot faster. I know what I am talking about here. It was off just enough that I could see the difference. When you are ready to really make that kart handle, just let me know. After all of the time I have put in to racing, it is easy for me to troubleshoot a chassis with only a few laps put on any track.
I think one more test session out there I will have most of the bugs worked out and my kart will be impressive. But I will check in to getting those parts ordered. I dont think I need everything, but will give it some thought.
So I guess you have a reason to try talking me into shortening the wheelbase on my kart now. Maybe you think I would just buy new parts, then let you have the old ones that get cut off. See I am not so gullible like you think. I know your angle there. I bet you would be very surprised if I managed to cut those old hangers off and reuse them. That should put the fire out on your little sneaky plan.
Oh yea, you got me there Frank. Always a step ahead of me. You got it all worked out too. You dont let mushrooms grow between your toes. Nope not at all. But I was going to suggest you try to save the old hangers, in case you didnt want to buy new ones. I dont think it would be too hard to cut them off and reuse. The frame is what will get sacrificed to save the hangers. It is getting cut shorter anyway, so it should be easy enough to reuse the old ones.
Well thanks for the Frank coke, ha-ha. I also need to go back to the track again. Soon as I know when the next Friday is available, will let you know. I have to set things up so all three of us get out there this time, so I have to rely on you to be already there when we arrive.
The last time out there I drug my feet long as possible when unloading. I had assured my mom you would be arriving long before we were planning on showing up that day. She was not too happy about seeing no one else at the track when we pulled in.
I also want to make sure your kart is ready to push up and drive this time. With me, Steve, and Chris out there for the next practice, I need to focus of getting them all running right. Chris really needs as much time I can spend with him making sure his kart is handling well. He does not know how a live axle kart even drives.
Now that his kart is changed over, I need to get it handling first before he gets accustomed to driving it. So my kart has to sit while I am working on his. If we got lucky on the axle conversion, the next thing is getting all three of our engines running fast. Well fast for a Clinton. Mainly all three running about the same against each other.
So do you think that maybe those parts can get ordered like asap? I dont mind coming over here and helping put them on. You can oversee everything I am doing to make sure I dont mess your kart up. The more practice I can get working on karts the more confident I am about everything is being done right. Then our next practice day wont end up in another near disaster. Of course I am only thinking of myself right now.
If there is nothing else Frank, I am out of here. Got school tomorrow and will be busy for the rest of the week. I hope there is some free time after school, well after homework, to get working on the engines. So I will check in next weekend and maybe your parts will be here by then.
It was already way past dark as I returned from Franks house. Seems every time I ride over there it is farther than the last time. Pushing my bike back in the garage, I remembered about the box of parts Chris had mentioned about leaving here for me.
He sort of made a big deal out of this. Told me it was not nearly enough for what he thought was worth all the time and trouble we spent on his kart. Not to mention all of the hands on I spent showing and explaining to him everything I knew about putting his kart back together.
Over there piled up in the corner, I do see his old wheels and tires. I see the left over pieces of his frame. We did cut up the dead axle and weld it across the bearing hangers, ala Dart kart rear bumper style. This also strengthened his frame back to what it was before chopping off that dead axle.
The big brown box is sitting there with the pile of old parts. On top is a small box, after opening, is full of the new engine parts for him. We never talked about what he ended up buying. Something about a box of parts arriving at Pauls shop. There is the new Bradfield rod, and also a Go-Power manifold. I see he also ordered a four petal pyramid reed just like the one I have for my engine.
These parts are perfect to get his engine up to speed. But now that puts Steves engine relying on the stock manifold that we opened up. My first attempt at opening one of these up larger was very successful. But there is so much more it can be enlarged. I guess we focus on getting one of these hogged out to the max. Then maybe find out how well it works up against the Palmini and Go-Power manifolds.
In the box is also his can of Kartane. I wonder if he found out how much to mix up without blowing his engine to smithereens. I looked at the ingredients. Seems it is mostly Nitrobenzene. I know what this stuff smells like. It is very strong and sweet. Makes your eyes water just getting close to the smoke. I have never inhaled it out of the can, only smelled the remains after running thru engines.
When we worked at the track last week, there was only a couple of drivers running this stuff. It was extremely strong smelling. They were running in the dual engine class. When mixed with alcohol, it totally smoked up the hot pit area. The heat race was nearly over before that smoke cleared enough to see again.
My eyes were so watery, it looked like I had been crying the whole time. Chris stayed focused on lining up the karts for the next heat race while tears were running down his face. But it never even slowed him down. Fortunately we only had to put up with it for that one race in each heat.
As I opened up the big brown box, under the first flap was a small piece of paper.
![[Image: attachment.php?aid=5012]](https://www.vintagekartforum.com/attachment.php?aid=5012)
Thank you note tires pic
As I folded open the other flaps of the box, inside there was a full set of brand new tires. Even without smoke smelling of nitrobenzene filling the air, I felt those tears once again running down my cheeks.
Frank, even tho your kart handles decent enough right now, it is a good time to consider those upgrades. Just do it all at once. I noticed a little scrape on your frame right there. It looks just like the scrape I saw in a picture where the HOTROD magazine had done a track test on the first Super K.
Just think Frank, not only is your kart a prototype, it could be the very same one they tested. This could make your kart worth a fortune. Well possibly in about 60 years. Maybe you should wrap it up real good. Then store it in your attic for the next half century. Wadda you think?
Frank only gave me the reverse of some rude hand gesture. It wont take any imagination to guess as to which one. I didnt react to it, since not familiar with yankee sign language. But figured to mean about the same as the other one.
Oh yea Frank, one more thing while it is on my mind. Thanks for helping out Chris last week. He made his own bearing hangers from that template and his kart is actually finished. So now he is waiting on me to do some improvements to his engine before we can get to the track just yet.
Who is Chris? Is it someone I know? I dont know anyone by that name. So why would I do a favor for someone I dont even know? How dumb do you think I am anyway?
Gee Frank, I am not going to touch that one. But Chris is my other friend that came over with me last week when we tore your kart all to pieces as you claim. I just wanted to thank you for him since without making those bearing hangers, we would still be waiting on the order to be delivered. That is if he bought new ones instead of making his own.
Right now I cant think if there was any other parts we talked about. But sure with that engineers mind of yours, you will remember everything else sooner or later. But probably not until after you already placed your order.
Since you dont care to remember that Chris came over last week, I will tell you what we did anyway. He has an older model that what we think is a Simplex kart. It is definitely not a Challenger. But most of the parts appear to be made by Simplex.
It originally had a dead axle. We converted over to a live axle and even adjusted the front end geometry so it might even handle now. The steering shaft was just a welded up piece of 3/4 inch tubing, so had to be changed out just like on your kart. After some other minor adjustments, the frame was painted and finally ready to assemble.
Chris stayed focused on his kart this whole weekend and got it all put back together with very little help from me. I hope all of the improvements dont mess up the kart like what happened to yours. You know since we didnt have much for a jig to set it up in. But maybe it will settle down after some track time like you think that your frame did and be just fine. Who knows.
Well I am not a big believer in doing those types of upgrades on frames that were never engineered to be that way. That chassis was designed around a positive engagement single locking wheel. Converting over like you said, may very likely be the worse mistake you ever made.
Frank why do you always think like that? Cant you just say chain drive or dead axle like most other knuckle heads like you label everyone as? And besides, most of last years karts were just the older models upgraded instead of totally redesigned. But there are some really cool new karts that have come out this year.
I have noticed some of them follow a similar layout. There are still plenty of under the axle frames. But right now it seems a lot of the new ones are going frame over the axle with a sort of drop down seat box. But the Cates is the only one I have seen anywhere racing for a while so far with a fiberglass bucket seat.
Frank what would you think of a flat frame with axle mounted above but using a fiberglass bucket seat instead of a built in style? Do you think it would even work? Or am I missing something?
Yea, I say you are missing something. The current trend of frame over axle is something that is just the next generation of karts. A more professional level build too. I expect this is the direction it will continue and just get better. A new proven design that is going to become the standard in future chassis development.
Frank something else I have noticed too. Well it went real trendy last year, then sort of fizzled out. They were calling it the forward look. A whole bunch of newly designed frames with live axles, had sort of moved the driver forward. Maybe to better suit different engines behind the seat. I dont really know the reason, just guessing.
Most of these karts have extended the frame in front of the axle. The steering support seems to be going to the narrow type, so your knees are not all bent up so much. I mean it doesnt affect me right now, since I am not very tall yet. But for bigger drivers it makes sense to have some more leg room. I sure would not be comfortable all scrunched up trying to get the kart around the track licking my kneecaps doing it.
Some of the karts looked cool and well thought out. But if I made one like those, it makes sense to keep the wheelbase short as possible. Then just add enough length, in front of the axle for your legs to be more comfortable. You know sort of like a front porch on the kart. This is a good description of it.
This small extension really doesnt even need to be wide as the main frame rails. But by moving your body weight forward slightly shouldnt hurt handling, since it puts more weight on the front wheels. Could you now get away with less caster or king pin inclination if there is more weight on the front end?
The one thing I really like about the extended front rails is allowing all of the steering parts to sit behind the front axle and completely out of the way. So Frank what am I missing on all of this?
Well just from bench racing it sounds all well and good. But you dont see the fastest teams and karts out there right now set up anything like you are talking about. That should be your first warning. With the steering mounted behind the front axle could completely mess up your geometry.
I would have to crunch the numbers to figure just how bad it might be, but that just takes too much time. There are just too many variables needed to factor in making it even more complex. I would think since the fastest karts running have not moved in that direction sort of proves the idea is a complete failure.
One more serious thing you are completely overlooking. Your feet are totally exposed that way. Did you ever stop to think of that? At least before the steering components helped protect your feet. This "NEW" way (Yes Frank did use hand quotes when saying this) you are so excited about sure puts you feet in real danger. Imagine all of the foot and leg injuries at one of the more professional sanctioned races that could happen. You just dont think.
Wow, Frank, a lot of kart manufacturers are already adding front bumpers. Would that not solve the problem now? Not only protecting your feet, but also no longer tearing up your tie rods either. What am I missing here again Frank?
One more thing Frank, my Cates kart uses a fiberglass seat. Oh yea it also has a front bumper too. Since you are knocking some of the new style frame designs. No other kart since it came out two years ago until just recently does. It is also cut and welded square tubing. I dont see other kart manufacturers moving that direction. Does that make it a complete failure?
Did mine or Steves kart have any issues handling? I sure dont remember you barking a single complaint about either of them. After a few squirrely laps, you sure seemed to adapt to the differences on how it drives compared to what you are used to driving. I sure dont have to throw my body around to make it handle like you keep trying on every lap in your kart.
I never told you this, but the fastest lap times you have turned out at the track is on my kart. You were telling me how fast your kart was going to be, but was not nearly fast as when you were following Steve driving my kart.
Once again you are only thinking things thru with incomplete data. I may have been faster on your kart. But you claim that is only when I was following your buddy, Sturgen. You didnt factor in I was drafting him in order to run that fast. Not so smart without taking in all of the factors which allowed that to happen. Incomplete facts lead to incorrect conclusions.
But Frank, when you were driving your own kart, the lap times were slower when following Steve. His name is not Sturgen. But you know that. After he passed you, then you pulled in behind, your times did get much better after a few laps. But you even improved your times after driving my kart later in the day.
Again I have to make a correction kid. I followed your buddy, to get more acquainted with the track. It is always easier to follow someone than to lead. He cuts a big hole in the air and my speed increases a lot. Once I was more familiar with the layout, naturally my times would drop substantially. I told you I have a lot of driving experience. Just need a few laps on a new track and I can get really fast.
You may not even know this, but I was pushing your buddy Stefan hard, making him drive faster than he was running before. As I got acclimated to the track, my times dropped substantially. I can tell within a second how fast my times are. I could have almost passed him just about anywhere on the track. But I wanted to get back used to driving in traffic, not just take the lead and run away with it.
That is how you become a good and fast racer by adapting to all types of situations. I thought by now you would have figured that out for yourself. I also told you with some good advice from me, I could really help Stofer improve his driving. I can see a lot of minor mistakes he is making when pushing him really hard like I was doing during that last practice.
You know Frank......? Oh heck never mind, I give up. Maybe you can confirm all of this the next time we make it out there to practice. I am ready to start keeping accurate time sheets on everything we change out or adjust. After I get Chris comfortable on his kart, then we can all run a bunch of laps together swapping places like when really racing.
Well Jerry, uh junior, like I am going to keep telling you, take my advice. With some slight adjustments to your buds kart, uh his name is Stanley, yea that is right, I can make his kart a lot faster. I know what I am talking about here. It was off just enough that I could see the difference. When you are ready to really make that kart handle, just let me know. After all of the time I have put in to racing, it is easy for me to troubleshoot a chassis with only a few laps put on any track.
I think one more test session out there I will have most of the bugs worked out and my kart will be impressive. But I will check in to getting those parts ordered. I dont think I need everything, but will give it some thought.
So I guess you have a reason to try talking me into shortening the wheelbase on my kart now. Maybe you think I would just buy new parts, then let you have the old ones that get cut off. See I am not so gullible like you think. I know your angle there. I bet you would be very surprised if I managed to cut those old hangers off and reuse them. That should put the fire out on your little sneaky plan.
Oh yea, you got me there Frank. Always a step ahead of me. You got it all worked out too. You dont let mushrooms grow between your toes. Nope not at all. But I was going to suggest you try to save the old hangers, in case you didnt want to buy new ones. I dont think it would be too hard to cut them off and reuse. The frame is what will get sacrificed to save the hangers. It is getting cut shorter anyway, so it should be easy enough to reuse the old ones.
Well thanks for the Frank coke, ha-ha. I also need to go back to the track again. Soon as I know when the next Friday is available, will let you know. I have to set things up so all three of us get out there this time, so I have to rely on you to be already there when we arrive.
The last time out there I drug my feet long as possible when unloading. I had assured my mom you would be arriving long before we were planning on showing up that day. She was not too happy about seeing no one else at the track when we pulled in.
I also want to make sure your kart is ready to push up and drive this time. With me, Steve, and Chris out there for the next practice, I need to focus of getting them all running right. Chris really needs as much time I can spend with him making sure his kart is handling well. He does not know how a live axle kart even drives.
Now that his kart is changed over, I need to get it handling first before he gets accustomed to driving it. So my kart has to sit while I am working on his. If we got lucky on the axle conversion, the next thing is getting all three of our engines running fast. Well fast for a Clinton. Mainly all three running about the same against each other.
So do you think that maybe those parts can get ordered like asap? I dont mind coming over here and helping put them on. You can oversee everything I am doing to make sure I dont mess your kart up. The more practice I can get working on karts the more confident I am about everything is being done right. Then our next practice day wont end up in another near disaster. Of course I am only thinking of myself right now.
If there is nothing else Frank, I am out of here. Got school tomorrow and will be busy for the rest of the week. I hope there is some free time after school, well after homework, to get working on the engines. So I will check in next weekend and maybe your parts will be here by then.
It was already way past dark as I returned from Franks house. Seems every time I ride over there it is farther than the last time. Pushing my bike back in the garage, I remembered about the box of parts Chris had mentioned about leaving here for me.
He sort of made a big deal out of this. Told me it was not nearly enough for what he thought was worth all the time and trouble we spent on his kart. Not to mention all of the hands on I spent showing and explaining to him everything I knew about putting his kart back together.
Over there piled up in the corner, I do see his old wheels and tires. I see the left over pieces of his frame. We did cut up the dead axle and weld it across the bearing hangers, ala Dart kart rear bumper style. This also strengthened his frame back to what it was before chopping off that dead axle.
The big brown box is sitting there with the pile of old parts. On top is a small box, after opening, is full of the new engine parts for him. We never talked about what he ended up buying. Something about a box of parts arriving at Pauls shop. There is the new Bradfield rod, and also a Go-Power manifold. I see he also ordered a four petal pyramid reed just like the one I have for my engine.
These parts are perfect to get his engine up to speed. But now that puts Steves engine relying on the stock manifold that we opened up. My first attempt at opening one of these up larger was very successful. But there is so much more it can be enlarged. I guess we focus on getting one of these hogged out to the max. Then maybe find out how well it works up against the Palmini and Go-Power manifolds.
In the box is also his can of Kartane. I wonder if he found out how much to mix up without blowing his engine to smithereens. I looked at the ingredients. Seems it is mostly Nitrobenzene. I know what this stuff smells like. It is very strong and sweet. Makes your eyes water just getting close to the smoke. I have never inhaled it out of the can, only smelled the remains after running thru engines.
When we worked at the track last week, there was only a couple of drivers running this stuff. It was extremely strong smelling. They were running in the dual engine class. When mixed with alcohol, it totally smoked up the hot pit area. The heat race was nearly over before that smoke cleared enough to see again.
My eyes were so watery, it looked like I had been crying the whole time. Chris stayed focused on lining up the karts for the next heat race while tears were running down his face. But it never even slowed him down. Fortunately we only had to put up with it for that one race in each heat.
As I opened up the big brown box, under the first flap was a small piece of paper.
Thank you note tires pic
As I folded open the other flaps of the box, inside there was a full set of brand new tires. Even without smoke smelling of nitrobenzene filling the air, I felt those tears once again running down my cheeks.