Thoughts about ignition chips

[stan wauthier]

I've Been using these on my WB820's with no problems at all. Bolt them to the outside of the engine and route the wire inside to the coil. Hopefully will be running them at Fremont tomorrow, weather permitting.

https://www.amazon.com/Rotary-Electronic...EM61Y92K8P

[Loyd Blackwell]

I'm glad to see this subject being discussed. This is what I've been looking at, http://www.hpi.be/index.php
[url=http://www.hpi.be/index.php][/url]there is a set up for programing your chip for different ignition curves, rev limiter ect. I don't know or understand all I've read about them but it sounds like something for the racer. Just wondering if anyone has used these....?

[MARKTomasic]

I'm glad to see this subject being discussed. This is what I've been looking at, http://www.hpi.be/index.php
[url=http://www.hpi.be/index.php][/url]there is a set up for programing your chip for different ignition curves, rev limiter ect. I don't know or understand all I've read about them but it sounds like something for the racer. Just wondering if anyone has used these....?

That's very interesting which of there products were you looking at? Looks like a lot of there stuff is Universal.

[Terry Sullivan]

I have always found the wiring diagrams that come with these guys to be confusing, as they try to indicate polarity, but then don't indicate what part of the existing system to connect to.  Some expert assistance would be welcomed.

Jim,

Remove the points and the condenser.
Connect one module lead to the 'positive' wire from the coil - the one that was previously connected to the points.
Connect the other lead to ground, usually where the other lead of the coil is grounded.
The metal case of the module does not need to be grounded.
As I mentioned earlier, you may have to reverse the connections to get the best spark.
As Dave said, Scott did a cool test of the timing produced by modules.
I believe they allow timing like the old 'maverick' spark tricks from many years ago, but require no spring bending, or manual switching at speed.

[Tom Day]

I think the bottom line is what is the most reliable unit available, where can you buy it and what is the timing with a std flywheel and with a 5 degree flywheel?

If someone can answer this it would be great!

I tried using these once but the 2 I bought both failed within 3 minutes and I gave up on them!

[Bill Peck]

I have always found the wiring diagrams that come with these guys to be confusing, as they try to indicate polarity, but then don't indicate what part of the existing system to connect to.  Some expert assistance would be welcomed.

Jim,

Remove the points and the condenser.
Connect one module lead to the 'positive' wire from the coil - the one that was previously connected to the points.
Connect the other lead to ground, usually where the other lead of the coil is grounded.
The metal case of the module does not need to be grounded.
As I mentioned earlier, you may have to reverse the connections to get the best spark.
As Dave said, Scott did a cool test of the timing produced by modules.
I believe they allow timing like the old 'maverick' spark tricks from many years ago, but require no spring bending, or manual switching at speed.

OK, that's great as far as it goes. But how does the module know when to fire and how do you adjust the timing? I've been looking at the links provided above and I can't find any explanation of how these things work.

[Scott Kneisel]

I did run a test on the timing of the small modules and can post it here is anyone is interested.

Bottom line is that the timing from the small module is triggered by the induced voltage in the coil based on the magnet position on the flywheel vs the  coil laminations.

The basic module fires at 28-29deg BTDC with a standard flywheel vs 32-35 deg BTDC with a 5 degree flywheel.
These are approximate because a 5 degree advance flywheel can vary from 3 to 8 degrees due to manufacturing tolerances.

Other modules I have used are the Yammy module which fires at about the same point. This is undoubtedly the most reliable.

My favorite is the PVL analog ignition used on modern 820's. I remove it from the WB laminations and bond it to the Mac unit. That baby fires at 35 deg BTDC with a standard flywheel and 40 deg with a 5 degree.
If you use this though, be careful because the engine will start backwards if you are not careful.

I'll post the article when I am sitting at my home computer or maybe Terry can post it, I sent it to him last night.
Scott

[Loyd Blackwell]

Hey Mark I've just been trying to figure out how to use some of these things. I found that site while looking at motoplat ignition parts for my K88. It has the factory point type ignition setup. From looking at some of the different chip style modules available now I'm just as confused as ever. I emailed those guys a while back about it and their answer left me still  wanting more info. The problem is they are in Belgium and a lot of their products are for racing bikes. But they also have plenty of universal parts as you said and one of them has to work with karts.

[Terry Sullivan]

Here is Scott's article on Mac timing.
Great job Scott!

My two cents:
- I believe the modules are essentially duplicating 'maverick timing' all the time
- I have an article from 1964 that says the crank flywheel key was 'retarded' at the same time the flywheel keyway was 'advanced' 5 degrees. I believe this article was discussing the MC-9.  If that is true, your 'magnetic' timing would vary, depending upon the model of the crank you are using and 'magnetic timing' is really all the module cares about.
- If you are using points, a 5 degree flywheel does not have any effect on your timing, as the points are in control.
There may be some benefit (or loss) in the strength of the spark due to the change in the timing of when the magnets pass over the coil poles.

Having said all that - I use them!

[Bill Peck]

Here is Scott's article on Mac timing.
Great job Scott!

My two cents:
- I believe the modules are essentially duplicating 'maverick timing' all the time
- I have an article from 1964 that says the crank flywheel key was 'retarded' at the same time the flywheel keyway was 'advanced' 5 degrees. I believe this article was discussing the MC-9.  If that is true, your 'magnetic' timing would vary, depending upon the model of the crank you are using and 'magnetic timing' is really all the module cares about.
- If you are using points, a 5 degree flywheel does not have any effect on your timing, as the points are in control.
There may be some benefit (or loss) in the strength of the spark due to the change in the timing of when the magnets pass over the coil poles.

Having said all that - I use them!

Thanks Terry. Now I'm slightly less confused. So I guess the way to adjust the timing would be to vary the position of the coil relative to the flywheel. But to measure the timing you would have to calibrate the flywheel, then run the engine with the shroud removed and check it with an inductive timing light (or am I missing something?). I think I'll stick with points for the time being!