I survived sandy hook.

[tom dandes]

Yeah the attitude of the track people was completely opposite of the last event we had there!
Tom D, next trip consider 17 to 301 to  97 to 895 to 95. Check it out on a map, that will keep you away from DC traffic.

Paul that's what we were trying to do but we got off track because of the rain and accidents. I was so tired that I didn't even realize we were in DC until I saw the pentagon......

[David Luciani]

David, how would the insurance boys look upon this "series racing" in the event of a claim?  Isn't the insurance coverage for "display and exibition" for the vintage kart events?

Actually that is a VERY complicated question.
it really depends on what the track has for insurance and that is something the "new promoters" should know and have been sure they got the right coverage.

When i did Sandy Hook they had excellent insurance (verified) but we weren't running a series just a vintage reunion with exhibition at speed. we did have trophies which is skirting racing i guess.
the series thing came last year and i bone headly didn't try to stop it then when it was suggested.
 in my defense i was trying to help three events salvage some seriously mis guided re-scheduling ideas and a small one off series seemed like it might work.
 at the same time i was just learning that i had "retired" from promoting cuddeback so i had little say in the matter.

But
Heres a sort of answer.
 there are way to many variables for me to much more than provide info and make a good guess.
i spend several weeks researching kart insurance when i had questions about it a couple of years ago.
Long story short i ended up getting a phone number and having something like a two hour chat with the WKA Track insurance agent.
he's a heck of a good guy and happy to help answer questions or be generally available.
he also writes the VKA officer liability insurance so he's deep in his knowledge of what we are doing.

First thing i learned the difference in cost for a 1,000,000 policy and a 6 million policy is pretty small.
So any track claiming "it costs alot more" for the high dollar policy should probably go with the WKA agent for pricing.
Second there should never be a time when the wristbands will have no number as they are your actual policy you are purchasing from the track.

But your question was would they cover us if we are found to be racing.
THAT IS DEBATABLE.
typically the insurance doesn't differencate between different styles of karts when they insure.
so in theory we should have no worries.

HOWEVER there is a clause in the policies that doesn't allow "fun Karts" to be participating on the track.
so it really becomes an issue if the insurance company defines a racing kart as only one that is current in safety equipment.
That was what Woodbridge Kart Club argued years and years ago when they insisted we add nerfs and pods to our Vintage karts if we wanted track time.
Alot of hard words were exchanged back then and some people still remember.

I never got that "yard kart" clause clarified and about then my research caused a discussion which ultimately ended my promoting races at Cuddeback.
i did forward my concerns to the replacement promoter and he assured me the insurance was totally fine.

What Gary and i both have mentioned is that years ago the whole racing /live at speed demonstrations thing , was shall we say , STRONGLY discussed within the club and the forums.
While it's about even split between the race don't race guys there was an area of agreement.
Several different discussions had series racing suggested and generally it wasn't a wanted idea.
that was spit between many factors thje biggest one was we are just screwing around so getting obligated to attending races for points wasn't a desirable feature for vintage events.
the biggest issue of course is that we'd never be able to deny racing if we have a series which could get the insurance guys notice we are RACING with obsolete "unsafe" equipment and  THAT could tank us running on the tracks.

THAT WOULD SUCK it took nearly 15 years to get vintage karting the access many now consider normal.
WAY back in the early days before i was involved track access was a huge issue.
when i first started (somewhere around 04 or 05?) track access was practically non existent .
TBO was nearly the only Venue that was a regular event for karts.
even finding a parking lot where we weren't chased away was a problem.
What has been built since then is just amazing and i admit that i worry every year that it could go away in an instant.

My point about promoting the series is probably WHY?.
the tracks were already growing in attendees every year and we had momentum.
Anyway as i've said before it would be nice if SOMEBODY who is involved besides Scott K. would comment and perhaps put our worries to rest?

[Chris a Postiglione]

Hey Tom dandes I was at sandy hook as well running your class. I ran a margay strait axel mk 3 with a mac 91b with square vintage speed tires and compound. i was a little upset at the drastic difference between 3rd place where I was and the leaders. But keep in mind me and you both did not have --------------Big twin alky carbs ,blimp pipe, gauge, sticky tires, wider axel/ front wheel width and a dxl spring clutch. I had a blast running my margay as I always do. For years I've been put into 6.1 sidewinder class. Absolutely loved the smallness of the track but would not entertain going back unless track owners would run event different and change attitudes.

As far as the northeast promoters series, each event is run separate and by the track promoters themselves.

[Al Postiglione]

See updated post.......

[tom dandes]

Hey Tom dandes I was at sandy hook as well running your class. I ran a margay strait axel mk 3 with a mac 91b with square vintage speed tires and compound.  i was a little upset at the drastic difference between   3rd place where I was and the leaders.  But keep in mind me and you both  did not have --------------Big twin alky carbs  ,blimp pipe, gauge, sticky tires, wider axel/ front wheel width and a  dxl  spring clutch.  I had a blast running my margay as I always do. For years I've been put into 6.1 sidewinder class.  Absolutely loved the smallness of the track but would not entertain going back unless track owners would run event different and change attitudes.

As far as the northeast promoters series,  each event is run separate and by the track promoters themselves.

Chris I forgot you were there and we had talked about your MK3. Personally I was having so many carb issues I don't remember much other than wrenching on the kart. But we did have a good time didn't we! I spun twice and almost had the carb fall off once but when it ran I had fun.

[steve welte]

I agree on the hard and soft tires not being run together. That was a huge problem in the over 60 for quite some time. I don't like any sidewinders being run with rears as the entry points and braking are completely different. Yes there are a few early sidewinders that may be close to rears but they are still not the same in how they are driven. Plus which ones are we going to talk about and pick and choose from. ( I have a straight axle that will run with Invaders and pro X etc. It is the exception). One thing we really try to do , at many of the events I attend) when mixing classes is to be very sure you leave a huge gap between the different karts. That way everyone isn't trying to pile into the first or second turn on widely different chassis and tires. Yes sometimes you may be stuck into running with another class but if you do you should still be scored separate. However when that happens you should be sure they put the faster karts in the front group and you leave a gap between you and them for the green flag. There are exceptions like not having many on the track or you are familiar with EVERYONE that is on the track with you. Here is a good rule for safety. You cannot just go race someone you do not know and do it safely. Some people are tremendous drivers and after you run with them a few times you start to know their style of driving. Some will run over you and others will race you with Vintage respect. Which one are you running with? Some on the track have no experience. Press them hard and you are both in trouble. I've seen it many times. It's the good, bad and ugly. Vintage karting is not for those that are not going to give anyone a break on the track. If you read this and don't agree then stay home. WE DO NOT NEED YOU! I've already seen it this year. "I'm not letting him take my spot". Crash! Vintage karting is one really serious crash away from the end. Don't let it be YOU!

[Al Postiglione]

This is a reply to all..........

I have been having trouble getting onto this forum. Finally I have re-regrestered with a new name. Hopeful, from this point forward I will be able to respond to all questions and thoughts regarding the N.E. Series.

1. There is so much posted here that I'm fearful I am going to miss something..... But I will start an attempt to shed some light on how things developed and how things played out. If there is anything I don't touch upon remind me. 

2. This is our first attempt at putting together this series. Personally I expected some "bumps". And what I'm hearing here basically amounts to just that. I will deal with the "bumps" in a bit.

There seems to be a question as to "Why" have this series. Well from what I have been observing attendance at the very least has been flat and in some cases down. This series is an attempt to improve numbers while making things interesting for everyone. The intent of the series was clearly placed on the original series flyer. 

Here is the section on the flyer dealing with the "Why":

• The 4 events, and the collective event, “The Northeast Vintage Kart Promoter’s Cup Series”, will be conducted keeping in mind the core VKA vision. That is, to grow Vintage Kart participation, to further the acquisition, preservation, and restoration of Vintage Go-Karts, and all in a safety minded environment. 

• The Mission of the “Promoter’s Series”... The ultimate goal is to create an atmosphere that will add incentives and increase the participation of “Vintage Karters” at all events. The Series allows promoters to recognize not only the success of an individual or group on a particular day but also allows recognition of accomplishments across the entire season. The Series, by means of point tracking, recognizes consistency in participation, consistency in engineering, and consistency in driving.

I hope this clears things up for those asking "Why".


3. The "bumps":
Like I said, this is the first time for this Series. We worked on the ground rules with all promoters and VKA officials for months prior to the first event. What we came up with was a compromise. A compromise that all four promoters agreed on. We are expecting to examine this season, learn from it, and incorporate our experience into next years season.

The Straight Axle class, and this was on the posted flyer, was being incorporated into the more modern Sidewinder class for series scoring. This was one of the compromises we, as a group, had to make. The one mistake I made was that after the compromise was made of moving "Straight Axle" from the rear into Sidewinder I neglected to change the flyer to allow the softer compound tires. It was part of the discussion but never made it onto an updated flyer.
(Personally, it is my opinion that Straight Axle really belongs with rear with original style hard compound tires. I tried but could not get it done this time)
  
Much of the other stuff I am hearing are either absolute falsehoods or snippets of details blown way out of proportion. For lack of a better word I'll borrow the term "Fake News" or maybe "Alternate Facts". 

If anyone wants more details I am more then willing to speak with them. 
Send me a PM or simply give me a phone call.

4. The Insurance or "here we go again":
Last year there were all sorts of accusations regarding insurance.
All four events in this series have WKA insurance. There is no stipulation about racing or not racing. We have the same insurance that all the big national events carry. This was a non issue last year and is a non issue this year.

Now, considering our official "stated reason" for the series, are we doing anything different then at any other VKA event? Really?

5. Avon:
It's the the next event in the Series. July 28th and 29th. It's looking like it's going to be bigger then ever. 
Come on out and have some fun!

Thanks for Listening,
-Al Postiglione

[Al Postiglione]

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