Where there any rear engine karts with Italian engines?

[Paul Hail]

I'm a newbie to the forum, but not to karts.  Raced a variety of 100 cc's, a 135cc and an 80 shifter in the early 90's.

Anyhow, I've always had a soft spot for the early racing karts with the rear engines and narrow tires, just something appealing about them.  I'm used to seeing them with Power Products, West Bends and Macs.  But looking at the time line of the early Italian engines it would seem someone must of used them on those early karts, or have sidewinders been around longer than I assumed?

[ted johnson]

There were quite a few foreign rear karts. They are allowed in most vintage venues, but not at The Big One in Fremont. TJ

[Alan E. Lidke]

VKA doesn't really have any structure to permit rear foreigns either. Sad, because I'd be all over it if they did.

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[David Luciani]

Alan, what do you mean by vka doesn't allow foreigns in rears?
 i've seen vka allow foriegns in rears many times.
as far as i know they are allowed to run but they are a rare kart to see.
i don't recall any rule against it either though i've been wrong before.
 it isn't done alot because the duct work required to cool the engine is complicated.

 to answer first question sidewinders date back to the early sixties to allow cooling of air cooled engines.
 the early american sidewinders were designed specifically to get foreign motors into the wind.

d

[Tom Smith]

  VKA rear class guidelines.png (Size: 137.2 KB / Downloads: 3) [attachment=3882        


  VKA rear class guidelines.png (Size: 137.2 KB / Downloads: 3) https://vkakarting.com/members/vka-documents/

2019 VKA guidelines Rear engine karts > American engines only.  In other words Duffy Livingstone's Go Kart 800 / Konig isn't allowed at a VKA event.

[Paul Hail]

Thanks, I haven’t seen any pictures of rear engine karts with foreign engines and wasn’t sure of the timeline of sidewinders hitting the market. I thought it was mid 70’s when the sidewinders and out, didn’t realize it was a decade earlier.

[Kurt Bogerman]

I don't want to speak out of turn, as I've only been a VKA member for one year, but....

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that a period correct, foreign engine powered, rear engine kart should be welcome at a VKA event, at the promoter's discretion, and should run in whatever class suited it best, and that the compromise would be that it'd have to be considered a "Tier 2" entry and run unscored from the back of the pack?  I mean, who wouldn't want to see a kart like Duffy's out there making smoke?  Seems to me, the biggest issue is logistical, am I wrong?  The issue is finding time to fit the first 30+ years of karting's evolution into the schedule of a single, 2-day event.  Is that a correct appraisal?

Thanks,

Kurt

[Paul Hunter]

As I read the guidelines, historic is the only REAR engine class that does not specify american engine.

[Gary Wlodarsky]

Thanks, I haven’t  seen any pictures of rear engine karts with foreign engines and wasn’t sure of the timeline of sidewinders hitting the market. I thought it was mid 70’s when the sidewinders and out, didn’t realize it was a decade earlier.

Paul..just an FYI,,,the foreign motors came to the USA app late 66, some installed these motors on rear karts only to find out 2 things,,  they had considerably more power than fan cooled motors . and didn't last long because they are free air motors..meaning they are cooled by air moving over them...when mounted on a rear kart they didn't get much air( blocked by the driver)..this lasted app 1.5 ,2 years,,,then the sidewinders started coming...

there have been rear mounted foreign motors at VKA, VKCA events but the VKA decided to accommodate the masses vs 1 or 2 guys that built that rear foreign combination....they would still be welcome, but only as an exhibition type kart,,,again, the reason being they make considerably more hp than a fan cooled motor..(couple years ago a famous engine builder put this combo together and put a 130 pound professional driver on it and dominated...destroyed the 6.1 rear class...thats not what the VKA is about)...

Gary

[Chris Marchand]

In 1964 we ran enduros at Mid Ohio. The Ruttmans showed up with a Parilla on a rear kart. That thing was a rocket and went by the little 100 cc Macs like we were turtles. 2 or 3 laps later it was sitting on the side of the track locked up due to not enough cooling. Later on I remember some guys experimenting with trying to elevate the mounting height so it would get more air, which seemed to work till they then threw chains due to the much longer chain they had to run.Then the sidewinders came out in 69 or so I think and that solved the cooling probs with the Foreign engines and also obsoleted most of the rear karts.