Pro/Engineer Wildfire guru

[ted johnson]

Do we have an experienced Pro/Engineer Wildfire operator among our Vintage Kart ranks? I run Wildfire 4.0, and I just finished a quite busy drawing of a complex part. I need to copy the part file under a new name, and I need to copy the drawing and rename it also. It must still remain associative. I'm aware it can be done, but I'm a Designer, not an administrator. I've used Pro/E only in aerospace, where the parts are one-off prototypes. Any ideas? Thanks. Ted

[doug tenney]

Hi Ted.  
This is kind of an old post, so I'm not sure if you got an answer yet.
Over the years I've compiled a ton of Pro/E recipes, because I can't remember squat & absolutely hate having to figure anything out twice.

Anyway, I pulled out a few that I think could help.  See attached PDF.

Of course, the details can vary depending on the specific WF / Creo version and whether or not you're using a Data Management system (e.g., Intralink, Windchill, etc.).

Take care and good luck!

Doug

[ted johnson]

Thanks, Doug. I'm no computer guy, just a good mechanical designer who can model in Pro/E. The software I have is preproduction prototype, and is stand-alone. I have no connection with PTC since I retired from Sandia Labs. I began reading the PDF, and got about a paragraph down the page before my understanding was obsolete! I have no secondary file management system at all. This is pre-CREO Wildfire 4.0. I just went ahead on the first part and recreated the drawing from scratch. We are designing a better rod for the 101 Mac, and the 610/820 West Bend, but there are holdups in the manufacturing process to overcome. We haven't yet found a reliable way to fracture the rod cap. Unless we do, my several days of detailing and cramming ten pounds of dimensions into a five pound drawing will be for naught. We dare not use Geometric Dimensioning and Tolerancing, as most small shops would not understand the drawings. If we find a fracture guy who will do the deed without fracturing our collective wallets, I would like to add the Mac 91 rod to the mix. It would've been nice to be able to copy and rename the 101 part and drawing, so I could simply change the few different dimensions for the 91, but I don't want to have to go back to school to be able to understand PTC's documentation! Thanks again, Doug. Stay safe and enjoy the weekend. I may forward the PDF to Pruit and hope he, being more educated than I, will understand! Ted

[Terry Bentley]

Ted is there a reason you are favoring breaking the rod instead of machined? It is a cheaper way for mass production, but not necessarily better for strength or longevity.

It is also not that difficult to set up a small punch press that could break the caps either. If all of the manufacturing is going to be sub'ed out, they are going to get very pricey.

A problem I see is getting the heat treat close enough for the rod not to be too brittle, but hard enough not to stretch when the cap is broken.

[ted johnson]

We have good advice on heat treat, Rc numbers, Etc. I dislike hollow dowels because the annular holes required take too much material out of the rod and cap. The dowel also takes a bit away from the threads in the rod body. I have a heat treat outfit lined up, we have the steel lined up and the design is done, though I'm sure Pruit will have his guy run both models through FEA one more time, as I've tweaked the Mac rod a tiny bit, and the 820/610 rod is new. The original iteration of the 101 rod FEA'd out very well. The steel we're using is even better than the traditional 8620, though it does require a vacuum furnace for heat treat. I'm not worried about the design, just the processes. Ted

[ted johnson]

Doug, another question, if you do not mind. I tried an STL conversion on a simple test block Pro/E part. The output file extension is .stl. but the file type, when I do a properties query is a "Certificate Trust List". What the heck is this, and is it of any value at all? I had thought to see about making a STL file of our new connecting rod model, but thought I'd make something simple first, just to see if the conversion utility would work in this old preproduction installation of Wildfire 4.0. Any thoughts, in language that an old nuts and bolts non-computer guy can understand? Thanks. Ted

[doug tenney]

Oh boy, if I'm your "guru" we're both in trouble!

The STL format was developed for making stereolithography models (remember them?). The part volume is filled with tiny tetrahedrons as I recall. Nowadays it's used for 3D printing. As far as I'm aware, .the STL format is not preferred for FEA meshing or for generating tool paths

I've read that LIDAR (laser) scanners commonly output .STL files as well.

Software for converting from .STL to .STEP can be purchased.

[ted johnson]

Doug, can they use the Step file for making a 3D print model? I can convert to .STP O.K., at least I think so. This being a preproduction Wildfire, seems some utilities don't work right. Modeling, Model Check and the drafting package work just fine. When you live on Social Security, you can't afford a new seat of CREO! If I had to switch to a cheapie software, I'd quit modeling. Would you believe, I had my old computer in the shop in New Mexico for repair. That was back when I worked at Sandia Labs on Wildfire 3.0 and 5.0. I saw this nice Compaq used CPU sitting on the shelf for sale, and I thought it might be a good backup computer, so I offered the shop owner $125.00 for it. Turns out it had the Wildfire 4.0 preproduction package already loaded. That was well over ten years ago. The old box is on its second hard drive, but it's still chugging along. The Pro/E has been a blessing. I've designed several karts, made tons of parts for me and friends, and Lord knows how many DXF files for water jet cut pieces. I only fire the old beast up when I need to work Pro/E, but she still runs. I have a pretty close model of the 610/820 on it, so I can design parts for these engines. I thank you for the help. Ted

[doug tenney]

WF 4.0 on a random 2nd-hand PC?  What are the chances of that?  Sounds like the best $125 investment ever!
I confess that I know very little about 3D printers and whether they can use .stp files.
In WF 4.0, you should be able to save any .prt file as a .stl.
As for WF vs. Creo, I can't recall any meaningful differences.
BTW, if your next 2nd-hand PC happens to have SolidWorks loaded, you might be smitten.

[ted johnson]

Doug, I don't use it all that much any more. I sure don't want to go through the learning curve of a new system! I used WF 3.0 and 5.0 for five years at Sandia Labs doing satellite design. I had used Tntergraph IEMS before that at Kennedy Space Center, and Unigraphics II even earlier at Webster Fluid Power in Wisconsin. I have never even used anything like AutoCAD. UGII was the first CAD system I ever touched. There were always system specialists to do the background work, so all we did was to conjure up the designs and do the CAD models and drawings. To me, CAD is just the tool by which I translate my design for the machinist and fabricator. Before I left Sandia in 2010, I realized the new "designers" were CAD experts who had no clue as to how to design a system. To them, the CAD system was the end item. To me, the gear pump or the satellite was the end item.
I appreciate your help. This WF 4 outputs that "Certificate Trust List" file when I do an STL conversion. I don't even know if that file is of any use to the 3D printer or not. Pruit Ginsberg and I have completed our new Mac and West Bend rod designs, and I thought it might be nice to 3D print one of them just to hold it and maybe put it into an engine to run it through it's cycle. I have an aluminum test bushing I can put in a rod for port timing check, so all I'd need to do would be to ream the small end of the 3D rod and shove a needle bearing in there.
The $125 I spent at the computer repair shop was the best $125 I ever spent! Ted