Converting a mcculloch saw to a mc49 kart motor

[David Luciani]

hi recently  guys have been asking about making a kart motor from a mcculloch saw.
as i've posted this stuff in the past i figured tell them to go back and read the forum stuff.
hasn't worked so here one more time is the basics for breaking a saw down to it's power head.
i lost count a long time ago but there'sat least 20 saws that i've broken down so far.

short version, remove all chainsaw parts
replace intake and stuffer with kart ones.
add either mc5 crank or crank extension.
you could go the extra bit and add a kart piston too.
done
grumpy dave

btw there is a max torque clutch that will screw right onto the saw crank.
a little pricey but a perfect fit and excellent clutch.
d


this is a slightly longer  version but it should be of help to those who want to tinker and won't want to wait on me getting something online.
this is an article that i'llpublish sooner or later on the net.
warning if enough people pester me i'll change that to SELL so Be patient please.

the first thing is to get your tools handy.
you'll need a flat screwdriver or two, a bunch of sockets, and a few wrenches and pullers.
you start by removing the bar.
then remove the front aluminum handle.
take all the screws out of the top of the gas tank. theres some that hide pretty good especially near the gas cap and back near the rear handle.
after all the screws are out gently pry the gas tank cover off.
if it doesn't pop off check for a missed screw, some hide under all the oil imprenated saw dust so look carefully.
 but sometimes you have to pry pretty hard.
with the top off remove the screw holding the felt filter thingy and take out.
theres two (sometimes four) screws/bolts under there that need to be removed.
at this time you can also pull the carby as the bolts are easy to access.
save the carb, they're usually pretty good tilly's or flat backs.
remove the two lower bolts holding the carb manifold also take out the third one near the gas tank. take out manifold.
flip the saw on it's back.
remove the bolts holding the rear handle to the power head.
now the handle and lower gas tank should seperate from the powerhead. you have to kinda jigger the handle to get the gas bar clear. also be sure to cut the kill wire from the switch. be sure to leave as much as possible on the power head.
remove the four bolts holding in the oiler next. one of those bolts is a pain. i've got a ground down socket that fits to make bolt removal easier. most of the oilers will have a steel stuffer that also holds the oil in the oil tank. you need this part to keep stuff out of the motor so pop it off.Important put the saw over something that'll catch the old oil or you'll refresh the oil finish on your bench!!!
now it depends on which saw you have.
on all clutch removals you need to find the small hole in the fan cover thats used for pinning the flywheel. it's down near the powerhead on the back of the fan cover. put a small point , allen wrench, pick or whatever thru the hole and rotate the motor till you can push the pin a little father in . the motor shouldn't be able to rotate now. turn to the other side and remove the clutch nut.be careful some are left threads - some are right.
at this point the bigger saws require alot more parts removed to pull the gearbox.
smaller saws require the clutch to be pulled.
use a clutch puller regardless. i ruined a crank being impatient by hammering the nut to loosen the clutch. take five minutes and build a puller if you don't have one. i used a scrap of angle iron , two screws that fit the threads in the clutch and an i bolt with a nut threaded on.i just drilled three holes one in the middle and two to fit the puller span on the clutch.
i put the big bolt thru the middle hole and thread the nut on .install the two puller screws and then tighten the middle nut so it lifts the angle iron away from the clutch. you may have to tap the middle rod a little to get the clutch to let go.
remove inner clutch and pop off the key.
take out the gear drum.
now you'll need to clean the motor of the years of goo.
depending on which motor you have you can then add a manifold and stuffer, mount it and run.
or with the step cranks you'll need to change the crank or fit up an adapter.

dave

[David Luciani]

Comments by Dennis Turk

Here is some observations Mark Franzen and I have made over the last couple of years.

One the 200 will usually have on intake port blocked usually the left one.  Also the center exhaust port will be blanked off.  There will only be a small 1/4 inch port were we usually see three boost ports. 

The 250 we find a number of ways.  Usually one intake will be blocked off but all the exhaust ports will be open but not always.  Some of the standard 250's we have taken apart will have all the ports open.  These motors usually have all three of the boost parts open as we normally see but have found one that only had the 1/4 inch port.

The 250 super will have all ports open as usual.

We have built a half dozen of these Mc 49 clones out of all of these different engines and on mini bikes Mark finds they work great.

The 300 will always have all the ports open and I believe Mark has one that even has the Kart or tapered PTO with keyway. 

A point to remember about these clone Mc 49 saws if the recoil starter is on the fan shroud side its a direct drive saw and will always have the left hand thread screw on clutch.  The thread by the way is 7/16 -cores thread and is left hand thread.

If the saw has the recoil on the right side it will always have the kart style of PTO.  This was required by design of the clutch used on these saws.  These you will find are usually gear drive saws but not always.

As to crank shafts a Mc 5 style crank will fit these blocks .  The Mc 5 and the Mc 6 engine shared the same block just a different stroke cranks.  Short of being able to machine the inside of one of these saw block for the longer stroke you could not use a Mc 6 crank or the 1 1/2 stroke.  I am told by an old Mc 49 cheater this is what they did to the Mc 49 to build a cheater motor.  His initials are TI . "-)))))

Some of the saws come with the standard kart reed plate but some will have the ports and reeds attached to the bottom of the upper housing.  Right now I don't remember which saws come with the standard reed plate.  With these saws you only need a standard intake manifold and I know Terry Ives has new ones for $45 bucks. Some of these saws the stuffer is a standard kart version but in the case of the cheaper ones or the 200 series you will find that the stuffer is part of the oil tank.  We have used a number of the stock saw stuffers in the motors I have built and they work fine

What Mark and I have found is the 200 250 are a crap shoot.  You just don't know what your going to get till you take them apart. It seams Mc used what ever was on the shelf at the time of assembly of these saws.  Remember these were there bottom of the line saws so we have seen a lot of variations with them.

Turk

[David Luciani]

comments by Steve Welte,

Be advised that the 300 Mac saw is 1.5 stroke not a 1.375 like a 49 or like it says on Bob's.
If you are running a 300 in the 49 class it is a no no.
300 and 380 are the same stroke.
If you have a 250, it is a great choice to work with and one of the easist.
You need to spend a couple dollars on the intake and stuffer but why skimp.
It still won't break your wallet.
There are several different approaches to the stepped shaft. Most of them are explained further in the post.
Once you get it correct it can fly.

[David Luciani]

Steve Welte wrote:
In search put in "saw conversions" or "saw engines" that will get you the info you need. Also be advised that the 300 Mac saw is 1.5 stroke not a 1.375 like a 49 or like it says on Bob's. If you are running a 300 in the 49 class it is a no no. 300 and 380 are the same stroke.

Comment by Mark Frazen
300 is 1.375 stroke...380 is 1.500

Some of the later 250's are 1.500 stroke (87cc)

Steve Welte wrote:

300 block is 1/16" longer than the 80 cc blocks. I just did one 2 nights ago. It was 1.5" stroke. I thought to it was a 1.375 on first check and looking at the Mac Bob info. I thought Gee I found a 1.375 tapered crank. Wrong it was a 1.5" stroke. How many guys are running 300's as 49's without measuring the stroke because the info is wrong?

 SteveO,

As you are quickly learning here the numbers are a big factor. If you don't have one already the first thing you need to buy is a digital caliper to measure inside and outside dimensions of the parts you are trying to fit together.
Here is a link for the cheapest version I have seen. The same seller has a much nicer product for about $10 more that I recommend but if you really want to save $$ this one will do.
http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-comp...93293.html

You also need to take a realistic look at what your time is worth. To convert a saw motor to work on a kart can be done without much cash but you'll spend a lot of time searching and researching the bits and pieces you need to make it work. In the meantime, for about the same amount of money you can find complete Mc 91 series kart engines on ebay that you can just clean up and bolt on to run.
If you love to tinker and like puzzles then you are on the right path and guys like Dave and others here who have mixed and matched just about every part there is are a great resource to help. If you want to get on with it without a very steep learning curve you might want to consider buying a motor that is meant for use on a kart and then just worry about cleaning it up and making sure it is ready to run.
Good luck,
Steve O'Hara

Mark Frazen


That's good to know Steve W !!
 Maybe the "later" 300 were 87cc, like the later 250's. ??

I usually use this site for bore/stroke/displacement info.
http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.nsf/ed...enDocument

Chris Brown,
i was hoping someone could tell me how to get the cover off the block. I removed the flywheel and clutch now im trying to get the cover that goes around the entire motor to come off. i got it to move about 3/16's of an inch but it just wont let go, is there something im forgeting or simply just dont know?

i hope someone can answer that, i promise i have searched and found nothing. but that doesn't mean there is nothing so i could have missed it being talked about here but i did not see it.

im not giving up either, im still looking.

Brian Santee,
to remove the cover you must disconnect the rod from the crank. Then push the piston to the top of the bore. Take two screw drivers and being careful pull the cover off of the block. It will take a good bit of effort at first to get the cover moving. You will also need to position the rod and crank so they will pass by each other.
The crank may still be attached to the side cover to remove it heat the side cover and tap the crank out.

Hope that helps.
Brian Santee

Comment by Brian Thomas
There will be needle bearings on the rod . Don't loose any .
 Make sure the rod cap goes on the same way it came off .
Brian

 Dennis Turk,
Some info for you guys as to converting Clinton D-35 and D-65 chain saws to E-65 kart or mini motors. 

Clinton first came out with the E-60 kart engine I think in 58 or 59.  These are nothing more than the D-65 chain saw compete right down to the intake manifold.  They did however cut the handle mounting shoe off the intake but other than a 5/8 strait PTO shaft they are totally a D-65 saw motor.

In my playing around building E-65's from chain saws I did find there are three different PTO configurations Clinton used on there saws.  We made up engineering drawings for these three different PTO's and I sent them to Max Torque and they have them on file.  If you need a clutch they can make you one specific to your crank all you have to do is give them the basic dimensions of the PTO and you will get the correct clutch.

Picture of an E-60 kart motor.
   
Turk

[David Luciani]

Chris Brown,
How do I get that cap off, I see the hex screw through the intake but not sure how to get in there and pull it.

I apologize for making this so difficult

Grumpy Dave,
 remove four bolts from bottom of motor.
carefully pry the bottom cover off(stuffer) the con bolts are now accessable.

see pix below.
engine example is just loose parts i grabbed for demo.
the dirt and mismatched parts won't hurt these pix i suppose.
the side cover looks weird because it's from a mc10.
i was not motivated enough to get all the matching parts.
grumpy dave

stuffer area


side view


pry off gently


stuffer off




crank with con rod disconnected



pry here abouts  on side cover




and pry here abouts  on side cover






[url=http://www.vintagekarts.com/forum/view_topic.php?id=9944&forum_id=19&page=4#top][/url]
Chris Brown,

wow dave,
 i couldnt have asked for you to make it more simple and easy to understand. my problem that i now realized is that i didnt know the bottom cover came off

but now that i know and with the info you guys gave i should be able to knock this out

and someone was right i did take a pic of the wrong end of the motor . im a bit embarrassed

thanks again dave, and everyone. im gonna go outside now and try to get it off.

UPDATE: finally got the stuffer off and pulled the needle bearings out got the cover off. so next is to remove the shaft from the cover so i can sandblast it in the morning and get it all prettied up.

I believe i was told to use a heat gun to remove and replace the shaft

[David Luciani]

Chris Brown,

Brian Thomas wrote:
There will be needle bearings on the rod . Don't loose any . Make sure the rod cap goes on the same way it came off .

Brian

not sure how ill ever get those all back in properlly but i figure ill worry about that when the time comes




 
Dennis Turk,

Chris ,
Please don't sand blast your castings.  Glass bead blasting is OK but not sand.

I use Mr. Muscle oven cleaner to strip the paint off castings before I glass bead blast them.  Spray it on let is work overnight and rinse the next day.  Blow dry and glass bead blast.    I also screw bolts in to ever threaded hole so I don't get glass beads in the threads.  One or two glass beads in a thread and you have a jammed thread and then its stripped threads next thing is a heli coil.

Turk

Chris Brown,

oops, your right. actually thats what my dad gave me a bucket of and said use this. for some reason i call all blasting media sand. just like i call all mortars and adhesives to install tile with Glue, that drives the other setters nuts

thanks for the tip though, my dad didnt actually tell me why not or what the bucket was. and i didnt want to show him the motor seeing santa will be bringing him the very same motor this year, if i can finish it in time

im deeper into one of these motors more than i have ever been now, im a bit nervous to get it all back together properlly but hoping you guys wont give up on me.

Dennis T. ,
thanks for the advice, in case i can not find mr. muscle in my area i was wondering if nearly any oven cleaner will work or if i just hold out for mr. muscle

Grumpy Dave,

how neat .never heard of using mr muscle to strip mcculloch paint.
it is by far THE worst paint to remove from engines for whatever reason.

chris,
these motors aren't particularly hard to build.
  steve m. even has great success with them
the biggest thing is to count those needle bearings.
except for rare cases like the d44 ALL mcculloch motors have 24 needle bearings on the crank to con rod.
DO NOT assume you lost one if you haver less.
FIND IT as they will destroy the motor if they are hiding in the port areas.

if you are bead blasting the motor tape all the openings into the inside of the block first.
i used to blow that off and just clean the block after but that's a horrible S.O.P. and i quit that after maybe three engines.
first it's ALOT more work to clean them after second one grain of media can really wreck your day if it gets into the piston area.

when you re-assemble you can either oil soak you gaskets for a good seal or use silicone.
on the stuffer and side cover i like to use silicone for a good seal.
intakes i always oil soak as they come on and off alot.
on any bolts going into the aluminum block i use black rtv silicone near the head and partially on the threads to secure the bolt and seal the thread holes which sometimes penetrate the block.
the bolts that are on the motor i toss as they are junk.
my personal preference is all allen head bolts with the metric washer Scott k. supplied the specs below.
it's much easier to work on engine later and new fasteners is always a good engine building S.O.P.
notes from an email from Scott K.
Engine hardware.....OK, here goes:
Stuffer bolts - 4ea 1/4-20 x 1.25" Grade 5Stuffer nuts - 4ea 1/4-20 locknuts   (centerlock distorted thread nuts)
Side cover bolts - 6ea 10-24 x 3/4" ( Hex Socket head [Allen head]
)Fan cover bolts (90 series) - 4ea 10-24 x 1" (Hex Socket Head)
(Mc10) - 3ea 10-24 x 1 1/4" (Hex Socket Head)Fan cover nuts - 10-24 Nylock nuts
Head Bolts   (90 series) - 6ea 10-24 x 1 3/8" (Hex Socket Head)
 Head Bolts (Mc10) - 5 ea 10-24 x 1 1/4" (Hex Socket Head) 1ea 10-24 x 2 1/4" (Hex Socket Head)
Head Nuts - 10-24 steel lock nuts (I reuse the old ones, can't find good dups)
Intake Manifold- 4ea 10-24 x 1" (Hex Socket Head)Coil Bolts- 2ea 10-24 x 1" (Hex Socket Head)
Points bolt- 1ea 8-32 x 1/2" (SS Hex Socket Head)
Condenser Bolt 1ea 8-32 x 1/2" (SS Hex Socket Head)
Rod Bolts - Buy 101spline bolts or Holochrome 10-32 x 3/4"
Flywheel nut - 7/16-18 Steel Lock Nut - save the old ones if in good condition.
Washers - Small OD #10 washers (I use M5 metric grade 8.8 washers, they are same size as McCulloch used. Regular SAE #10 washers #10 split lock washers.  #8 SAE washers for ignition

OK, that is all I can think of. You can get all this stuff at McMaster Carr  http://www.mcmaster.com/# with exception of the 101 rod bolts if you want them you are on your own. I always use the high strength Holochrome bolts and have never had a problem. McMaster Carr is an excellent source if you have never been on their site.

Bolt Depot (http://www.boltdepot.com/Default.aspx)in Boston is also a good source but they do not have the steel lock nuts I listed above and their shipping tends to be higher than McMaster Carr.

to reassemble you'll need to either borrow or buy an inch pound torque wrench NOT the common ft pound torque wrench.
heres your torque value you'll need:

So heres the torque values for a mc motor as set forth by Mike Savin in his booklet "Speed Secrets and Tuning Tips"

torque value for each part
Coil/lamination Screws ------------55-60 inch pounds
Condenser screws ----------------30-35 inch pounds
Con rod - mc49 mc 91 -------------105-110 inch pounds *
Con rod - mc101 ---------------90-95 inch pounds *
*a master mc builder told me told that 101 rod bolts with 85-90 inch pounds and red loctite is bullet proof
and torquing to 110 results in cracked caps.i myself do 85-90 inch pounds
Crankcase End Cover Screws --------60-65 inch pounds
Crankcase Bottom screws (stuffer) -------- --95-100 inch pounds
Cylinder Head Screws -------- --55-60 inch pounds
Exhaust Header Screws -------- ----55-60 inch pounds
Fan Housing Screws ----------------55-60 inch pounds
Flywheel nut ----------------------300-360 inch pounds
Spark plug -----------------------216-264 inch pounds
Clutch Nut ------------------------ 260-300 inch pounds

Bonus info:
the following piston to cylinder clearances are recommended
mc49 series .0045 to .0055 inches
mc91 series .0065 to .0075 inches
mc101 series .0070 to .0100 inches

hope this helps
grumpy dave

[David Luciani]

Chris Brown,

DAVE,
thank you very much. I am very glad you helped out with all that info. I am taking the advice of replacing all the bolts, and am relived that you supplied all the info i need to just goto the store and pick them out. If i tried to do that it would have taken some time at the store pulling the right ones.

thanks for the torque specs also, i recently purchased a torque converter, I had to hold off on the micrometer this week but i can wait and get it next week.


I was wondering if you guys use a certain type of paint that will stay on better than others?

i am going to attempt to remove the camshaft from the shroud tonight, i picked up a heat gun and hoping that goes well
i counted 24 needle bearings so thats A PLUS

Dennis Turk,
Hi Dave

What I have found with Mc engines over the last forty or so years is Mc used different paint at different times.  I have had Mc parts that stripped clean  with one coat of Mr Muscle oven cleaner and others that I am still trying to figure out how to get the paint off.  I think Mac used some catalyzed paint on some of the saws.  Most of the original kart engine parts strip rather easily.  I know I have three fan shrouds from saws that bead blasting oven cleaning and even Jacco stripper wont take the paint off.  These I have just set aside as a lost cause.

Turk

Grumpy Dave.
i've found more that are baked on hard than not.
i use fine recycled crushed glass media and it usually does the job.
it's so fine the dust collector pulls it in pretty fast.
 i end up having to retrieve it from the dust bag fairly regular to save on expencises
will try oven cleaner on next set of five mc250-mc49 converts.

a regular house oven set at about 300 degrees is how i heat all my motor parts.
the opposite part i toss in the freezer and they usually slip together nicely then lock solid.
work time is about 15 seconds which is plenty.
only caution is make sure no women are around as they seem to think ovens and freezers are ONLY FOR FOOD blah blah blah.
sane goes for the odd parts on the kitchen table ect ect ect.
aaaand leave a time window to clear out any odd fumes too if you wanna have deniability.

one REALLY important thing.
on your con rod cap and main rod theres a little bump on one corner.
if you don't match the bump to the bump the rod will fail within seconds of firing the motor.
if you're confused say so and i'll post some more pix.
dave

Dennis Turk

Some info for you guys if you don't know this.  steel and stainless you heat to bed it.  For aluminum especially castings you freeze it.  Yes freeze your aluminum castings to straighten bent cooling fins and such.  We did work for Boeing aircraft a few years ago and we had sheet metal parts that had to be frozen to bend the tight radius they wanted.  If you did not freeze the sheet metal it would crack when it was ran through the press break frozen it would bend like butter and never crack.  Remember this guys.

Turk

SteveO,
Dave,

Tal-Strip in the aerosol can will take the hard Mac paint right off... along with your skin if you touch it and lungs if you breat it.
Very effective stripper but USE WITH GREAT CARE.
Steve O'Hara



Chris Brown,
thanks for all the advice guys.

i think i know what you mean about the bumps dave, i will surely ask for pics if i need them, thanks for the offer.

Im trying to find where i saved the instructions from someone here on pulling out that bearing thats on the shaft. i have the heat gun, when i heat it will it simply slide out or does it need to be tapped, or beat out?

I never hear of freezing no aluminium but thats pretty cool, ill try that if i need to do some aluminium fixen.

thanks again guys for everything, i dont think i would be anywhere near this far along without you guys, and im sure something would have been broken by now


Kurt Rodgers,

Chris Brown wrote,

    not sure how ill ever get those all back in properlly but i figure ill worry about that when the time comes

If it has been mention yet, to get the needle bearings back in, use Vasoline or similar petroleum jelly. With the piston and rod in the cylinder smear a light coat into the rod and cap. The needles bearings will "stick" to the Vasoline. Assemble the rod and cap, torque as specified. You can leave the Vasoline clear through fire up. It will melt as soon as gas hits it. Or you can wash away with brake kleen and the coat with oil.


Chris Brown,
I don't think it was mentioned, thanks though I was sweatin putting them back in.

Ted Johnson,
SteveO is spot-on about the Tal-Strip aerosol remover. I found that some of our spray can primers will not dissolve under the Tal-Strip, but everything else does. It has become very hard to find nowdays. I believe Mar Hyde has stopped making it. I managed to find a couple cans that were on someone's shelf, so I'm hoarding it. Remember, it WILL bite you if you get it on you or breathe it in! TJ

Mark Franzen,

    SteveO wrote:

    Tal-Strip in the aerosol can will take the hard Mac paint right off...

A word of caution here.... I was so excited to hear about this product that I just had to go get some right away. Wife wasn't home so I left a note.... She wasn't happy when I got home... I should have proof read and added the word paint before stripper.

Honey..
One of the guys just told me about a new stripper so I just ran to town to see if I could get me some. Be back in an hour...



Brian Thomas,

 DO NOT USE hardware store bolts ... Most are cheap china crap . Spend the extra couple of bucks and get them at McMaster Carr

Ted Johnson

    OOOOKAY!

BTW, I actually did find some advertised on the web, so maybe you'll be in luck. It only does a fair job on powder coat, and a pretty good job on the Mac paint. I had an original Mc6 shroud that not all the paint came off from. The same was true with the Mc6 back plate and stuffer. I didn't get to try it on the crankcase, as the paint had been bead blasted when I got the engine to rebuild. Eastwood once had a VERY good powder remover in their DeKote (DeCote?) pink slimy stuff. They took the smaller quantities off the market, so you can get it only in large containers. TJ

Mark Franzen
    Thanks for the info Ted... I'll order them on line from now on. I better be careful when I tell my wife "If any strippers show up on the front door step, let me know."

Ted Johnson
    Amen to Brian's post. I think I'm singlehandedly keeping McMaster Carr in business! I bought Gr. 8 studs from the local New Mexico hardware store several years ago to mount the 101 to the side plate on the Swoopster. Broke the first one off just torqueing it down. Never again. TJ

tom dandes
    Try soaking in good old dot 3 brake fluid for three to five days (it won't hurt plastics) and will remove most paints.

Or "purple power cleaner".  I buy it by the gallon at the local wally mart and five gallon jugs at advance auto (25 dollars). I use it in my parts washer because it's supposed to be inviro safe. It says "do not use with aluminum" but I've never seen any issues with it. After a couple of days immursed in the washer it will blister or leave the paint runny. You can use a brush to remove paint. Caution it will blister or burn your hands if you work with it long enough so wash with water after.

 Chris Brown
    actually last night i used some brake cleaner spray to get the grit and grime off the engine shroud and noticed that the paint started to bubble off. i didnt have enought soak it overnightlike you suggested but im gonna go buy a bottle, I think i might rather do that than bead blast the parts mainly because the beads cost more and i dont wanna have to worry about getting beads in the motor. dont want anything getting in the way of this being ready by xmas. and i usually find a way to mess something up if there is room for error

Im baking me up some painted metal for lunch, so far the wife hasnt asked whats cooking yet, 45 more minutes and im home free if she dosnt notice.

David Luciani
    YOU'RE DEAD if she does.
women do carry on about stoves and oven being for food only!!!
yeesssh.
dave

Chris Brown

    I was able to finish them off without being found. going to slap a few more coats on them now. i did have a problem with the recoil housing/motor cover when i hit it in a small area that i had missed last night it kinda bubbled up a bit. anybody know why??? its out in the cold so maybe that had something to do with it

I learned a long time ago to call strippers, Paint remover. no matter how i tell the wife or what i tell her its for once she hears the word stripper shes only thinking one thing. and then i end up having company on the way to the hardware store.


cooking parts i just painted is a great idea dave, thank you very much for telling me that. made my day when they came out not sticky and not as easily chipable, before if i even brushed something the paint would come off kinda

Grumpy Dave,
    
    Oh Oh sounds like a bad bound.
i assumed you'd been told to use primer first.
no biggy i've tried both ways and results seem about the same.

if you do prime parts us a nice self etcher , white is my favorite for yellow.

also many times the bare metal is embedded with oil from the saw.
a good before step is baking parts a few hours to drive out oil from the pores.
again not critical the paint seems to chip pretty easy no matter what.
of course i'm more about use then shelf queens so that may be a factor.

dave

[David Luciani]

Chris Brown,
    I knew it was too good to be true, i got busted on round two. I am no longer allowed to cook anything but food in the oven.

 

   David Luciani wrote:
"Oh Oh sounds like a bad bound.
i assumed you'd been told to use primer first.
no biggy i've tried both ways and results seem about the same.

if you do prime parts us a nice self etcher , white is my favorite for yellow.

also many times the bare metal is embedded with oil from the saw.
a good before step is baking parts a few hours to drive out oil from the pores.
again not critical the paint seems to chip pretty easy no matter what.
of course i'm more about use then shelf queens so that may be a factor.
dave

I actually primed it in the first round, it had done the same thing. and then i cleaned everything back to bare and went at it again but without primer and same results, but i did notice it happend after i put a healthy coat on right after spraying it with a quick coat, maybe i didnt let it tack up or dry a little so it made it bubble up... or something.

im dreading having to pick all them bolts out online, i got a bad internet connection and drives me nuts cause i constantly have to refresh and it clears forms when i do refresh. so im hoping i can pick them all into the cart before it locks p im going for it

    

Ted Johnson
    Chris, when you deal with McMaster Carr (the best source for QUALITY hardware and MUCH more), The quick way is to get all the part numbers on line and write 'em down. If you call them, they are wizards with the numbers and the call goes real quick. This way you spend as little time on line as possible if you have a lousy internet connection. http://www.mcmaster.com TJ


David Luciani

    told ya chris,
women have NO sense of humor with ovens and paint !!
as a contractor i get them used a few time a year.
i have one i should probably hook up but p/oing the boss lady is my favorite hobby.
lately i haven't dared use the NEW oven as that would be death!!!

if you wanna be lazy try bill for bolts.
Bill McCornack - McCulloch Engine Building, Big Volume Pipes, new reed cages - GEM die cast type , 1" axle wrenches, new Tillotson carburetors , Horstman Rev-Grip "Super Springs"
Bolt Kits for McCulloch
630-400-2645
bill.mccornack@comcast.net

i buy those bolts by the box so it's cheaper but bills prices aren't that much different.

dave

    Chris Brown
    hey man, great idea. i feel kinda ignorant for not even thinking of that, but i would have figured they wouldnt do that over the phone. awesome, another dumb question, would anybody have an approximate cost of the full bolt set for a MC49?

just trying to get an idea of what im gonna need to gather. and i doubt they would like me calling making them fill an order then say "ok thanks ill call back when i got the money" CLICK...

Does Bill sell bolt kits??? what i mean is does he sell like a package deal that has all the bolts needed for a particular motor like th MC49.

    David Luciani
    yep.
most of his kits have head bolts i think.
give him a call he'll fix you up.
dave

Chris Brown
    i got another mcculloch 250 for free today, my dads next door neighbor just said "is this the kind you wanted" and gave it to me. well when i got it home and opened it up i found out why it was free. It looks like a car battery blew up in there, looks like the corrosion youd see around a AA battery that is still sitting in a toy for 1960 stored in a damp place.

does anybody know what would cause this ??? do you think the motor will ever be able to be used? as of now the motor is seized but i have it soaking now with hopes that one day it will be sitting pretty on my fox minibike

    thanks for the number, i just talked to bill and hes gonna get me two kits(once i send a money order of course) that makes life easy for me.

im hoping i even need the second kit, im worried the motor may be too far gone. I have it soaking now hoping it will clean up.

does anybody recommend something that will eat up corrosion???

David Luciani
    once they're corroded theres no coming back.
probably either water or new gas with the alcohol can do a number on them.
as that's a fixed head motor it'll run at least 70$ to get rebored along with an 80$ piston.
take off any salvagable parts like flywheel coil outer cover what ever and let that one go.
typically those saws still can be found in GOOD condition for 100 to 150$ or less.

dave

Chris Brown
    I was gonna spray a can of pb blaster inside there, looks like most of the other metal is pretty and shiny when i flick away the crud. Here is that bottom plate, its the part that was corroding so I'm guessing gas sat in the bottom of the motor forever. So if I can get it freed up and if the walls are in decent shape would there be a chance I could use it. I dont throw much away and if there is even the slightest chance I can make it work even if it takes 50 hours of work id like to try.

Ill have to post a pic shortly, its to big from my phone to post.

David Luciani
    just keep in mind it's piston bore compression and seal that makes two strokes run.
corrosion effects all of that.
if it's all chewed up internally you'll be patching up a mess that'll cost way more to fix than makes sense.
those i part out as the saws are still common.

external corrosion is fairly common on the saws where the bottom comes into contact with the ground.
that kinda damage i just clean nice and epoxy fill sand smooth and paint.

seems silly to put fifty hours into something that isn't rare or hard to replace.
if you want to re-purpose the ruined block my buddy rick chapman makes the ruined ones into block clocks and gives them out as trophies.

the parts that are salvagable have value as scrap be sure to point out it's magnesium as i think it pays better.


dave

Chris Brown
    thats a pretty cool idea, the block clock.

would you happen to have a pic of what they look like? also does he build them for others? if so, any idea what it might cost me?

the majority of the corrosion is on the bottom, im just gonna keep sprayin pb blaster in it daily and hope for the best, if it dont work after a couple weeks ill probably abondoned the idea and hope i might be able to get me a block clock.

thanks for the advice dave, i really appreciate it and hope you dont think im just ignoring you. i just figure if i spray it daily maybe ill get lucky, but that dont happen often.

David Luciani
    with any project saw i first toss them in a thirty gallon galvanized steel trash can that i lead soldered the seams and have 7 gallons kerosene and 7 gallons diesel with 1/2 gallon of marvel mystery oil.
there might be a quart of gasoline in there to by now from all the saws that have visited.
loosens most everything eventually.
though i do have a badly corroded block from a buy out that is a total loss.

the block clocks are neat eventually i'll send you a pix.
mostly need a clock to fit the side cover hole.
dave

Chris Brown
    im gonna try the barrel of mixture you took the time to type out. thank you

and yes it its not too much to ask, and whenever you get time. not a huge rush since im gonna let this thing soak a while
    back to the original 250 motor.

im about done cleaning the block then gonna paint it and sneak it in the oven next chance i get.

when im putting the piston back on the cam, do i put the vaseline on the cam then put the needle bearings around it? then clamp it down onto the camshaft?

Kurt Rodgers
    I am sure "cam" is reference to the crank throw where the rod is attached, correct?
I had best success putting the petroleum jelly on the rod half and the cap. You don't need a lot, and DO NOT use anything other than petroleum jelly. That includes ANY other type of grease product. I then bed the needles into the petroleum jelly. Make sure you count the needles. They will lay in the jelly nice. Practice on the cap while it is on the work bench to get the feel of what has to happen. You will find that, when successful, go can invert the cap with the needles in place and they will not fall out - even when shaken lightly.
PS - where in Illinois are you at?

Dennis Turk
    OK I have to ask why no other product than petroleum jelly for seating the needle bearings in the rod and rod cap?  I have been using grease for the last 50 years building these motors and have never seen any ill effects from doing so.   Also never had a motor blow up or fail internally either.

Turk
    i bought 100% pure petroleum jelly. i swear i didnt have any on hand... anyway You are correct i am not very good with the terminology yet and i do mean the crank

i appreciate you explaining it and breaking it down to such simple terms for me. really it makes it a lot easier, wont be long and ill have an idea what you guys mean when you say certain things... at least i hope.

i noticed dennis's post about the grease, yeah why only vaseline???

thanks again.

I Frogot! I am way way way down south from your turf. Carbondale IL.

Ted Johnson
    I have been using the black molybdenum disulfide grease for over 50 years to install rod needles. WD40 blasts it right out after the cap is installed, and she's ready to run. TJ

Kurt Rodgers
    Dennis, Chris & Ted
Thanks for the responses.
The reason I insisted on petroleum jelly is the paranoia instilled on me when I was a young rookie engine tinker - before earning the "builder" stripes.
The veterans instructed me that the petroleum jelly will not only aid in assembly, but will provide some initial protection and lubrication during fire up. It will melt / wash away in short order with out leaving any traces.On the other hand, "regular" greases may be to heavy and if it doesn't wash away fast enough, actual create a "cavity" around the needle and starve it from the oil mixed into the fuel. Also if the grease does wash off, it may adhere to the cylinder and possibly cause a ring scuff problems. Now as Ted mentioned, "WD40 blasts it right out after the cap is installed," there is the method to prevent prevent all the nastiness described above. IF you blast away the "grease" thoroughly enough with brake clean or WD40 and then oil the needles down, you will also prevent problems.
This is what the people I knew as engine guru's taught me. I had no reason to doubt them and I never tried anything different. Their method always worked for me. It's up to you, pick any method, they are all based on experience and the users would not have offered it if they would cause problems.
good luck and keep us posted!

Chris Brown
    thanks for the explanation kurt. I was just wondering and i think you cleared it up for me. I have the petroleum jelly already so ill be using that, sounds easy enough.

would anybody be able to show me what a properlly ported MC49 might look like?


Dennis Turk
    
    Hi Kirt

I do use a very light grade of grease nothing heavy. I always use light wheel bearing grease.  I really dont put on a lot just a small ridge of grease down the center of the bearing race on the rod and cap.  many times you don't even see any grease protruding out of the end of the needles after the rod cap is torqued down.  I do spin the motor over a number of times before its allowed to fire up.  Usually with a cordless drill with the head off or at least the plug out of the head.  I use light oil on the cylinder when I assemble the engine and do oil the rings on the piston well before I install it.  I also oil the wrist pin needle bearings before I install it on the rod.  On the piston needle bearings I use a heaver grade of oil than I do on the rings.  After I spin the motor over by hand to make  sure it feels correct with no binding or excessive ring drag I will then use the drill motor to spin it over.  Kind of a preliminary seating of the rings before I fire the motor up.  After I spin the motor with the drill I pull the stuffer plate off and wipe off the small amount of grease that has been flung off the rod.  These things I learned when I stared karting in late 1960 when my first home built kart got one of the very first Mc 6 engines that came out.  Later that engine carried me through the 61 season on a Caretta kart till the state championship in August of that year. then on to he regional race in Bend Oregon in late September were I qualified for the nationals at Mansfield that year.  Unfortunately money job and girl friend kept me from going.  On a side note ever other Saturday I would pull the Mc 6 down.  Replace seals rod needles and rings.  New points and condenser and timed with a degree wheel.  Motor never failed me showed little to no cylinder wear at the end of the season.  Damn would I knot like to have that motor back as I sold it for $25 bucks at the end of the year and also sold the Caretta that five years ago I found and purchased back and  restore it to the condition it was at the regional championship race in Bend.  Thats the kart you see as my avatar.

Ted Johnson

    Moly disulfide is very light. Most wheel bearing greases are fibrous. Don't use them.You can get a cardboard cylinder of moly grease at NAPA very cheaply. I tried Vaseline one time only. Went back to the moly. TJ

    Brian Santee
    These are pictures of a block Scott Knisel ported. He does a very nice job. This was actually a 250 saw block.
Brian







Chris Brown
    
    Hey thanks brian, yes he does do a awesome job. i hope my job will come out somewhere close to that one.

thank you very much for the close up pics, i wasnt 100% sure where or how far to go but now i have a much better idea

im gonna give it a go, today. Ill probably post some pics so you guys can tell me what i did wrong like usuall but im hoping i do a decent job. Ill do just a little and maybe post a pic so that someone can tell me if im on the right track or just ruining the block


wow does he get all the way back in there on the opposite wall of the exhaust back? if so theres no way im gonna be able to pull that off.

Kurt Rodgers

    Ahhhh.... Carbondale

I vaguely remember a few Halloweens down there........ early 80's... I think....maybe... yea.....

Chris Brown
    now the halloweens suck, they try to keep everyone from going door to door trick or treating. so we took the kid to the mall, where they do a store to store trick or treat. Victoria secrets didnt give anything so i wont be buying my under garments there in the future.

SIU used to be a decent party school. they have basically stopped the partying as far as i know. i guess they had some riot a decade or so ago that changed the way things are done here. until this year you couldnt get beer at walmart but finally they have lifted the law where you couldnt buy but only from a distributer.

    Ok i am thinking about beggin the old lady for some new parts. I was wondering which motor would mine be considered? the 49E, C, or whichever other motor combos there are for a mc49. My motor came from a 250 chainsaw and has original intake manifold, minus the handle and big air box.

I am wondering for a couple reasons, i wanted to buy a sticker for it while the wife is in a good mood shes the boss of the monies while im unemployed

i was also gonna get a new reed valve thing but was wondering, if i was gonna continue to use the intake that i cut up out of the original intake which reed valves on say ebay would i wanna look at?
 
    Im looking on ebay right now for mCculloch parts , i was wondering how would i get this part in this ad to fit for the exhaust, i have 3 little holes for the exhaust not one big one. will it even fit this motor im working on ??


http://www.ebay.com/itm/GO-KART-MINI-BIK...25&vxp=mtr

Chris Brown


David Luciani
    not even close.
will post some exhaust pix sometime tomorrow.
dave

Chris Brown
    ok thanks dave.

Steve Miller
    hey i didnt notice one big factor in all this conversion post ..  nobody ever mentioned to chris ..   that it didnt matter how much work or how nice his motor looked that it would about 98% gurantee blow up if the wrist pin bearings  were set up ..  if it were a recent running cutting saw i prolly wouldnt worry .. but if its been settin around 20 yrs a  guy might wanna check them ..??

Chris Brown

    well thank bob that someone mentioned it. the guy said it ran but i got it for 40 or 60$, i never tried to start it. i wasnt too worried about it since i knew id be tearing it down anyway but the motor had compression and wasnt locked so i bought it.

what would i be looking for when checking them, or should i just replace with new??? if possible id like to reuse as much as possible, but i do not wanna sacrifice quality or reliability. I know my pops is gonna take it to hangar at the airport with him and would hate for it to blow up in front of his buddies.

thanks for mentioning it steve, if possible let me know what to do to make sure they are good or not.

Steve Miller
    i can feel when there stickin .. but the only real way  is to press the pin out and check .. you cant see the exhaust side needles cuz of the cap .. if it feels good and the intake side needles a turning free..!!   id chance it .??  ..if stuck it will catch a tiny bit right befor the rod touches piston .. if that thing binds up at all ..id be pressing new ones in .. or atleast spray lotta carb brake cleaner gas oil mix anything in there and work it back and fourth 100 times ..Lol

Kevin Brown
    Chris
Ebay
   Item number:160928378049. would be a cheap exhaust at $10 .  Or new box style still available at GEM around $40. 630-653-1800
Mailed you a package today USPS.
Kevin

Chris Brown


    Kevin, I really appreciate the headsup, I'm in the process now if begging the old lady to bid for me. I'm out of my kart allowance until the new year. Also my mom was asking me what I wanted for Xmas ajd that's cheap enough i wouldn't feel bad having her get it for me, since km an old man now but she insists.

thank you Kevin for everything.

I hope I can return the favor very soon and will probably annoy the he!! Out of you until i do.

Have a good night

David Luciani
    chris send me your address and save the dough.
 i have maybe 5 or 6 of those i'll send ya one.
merry christmas!!!
dave

Chris Brown
    Dave your awesome man. I appreciate everything you and the others have done to help me with this motor for my pops.

I'm gonna be trying.g to get me one now just gonna have to get another frame, since I'll be giving my pops one of my sidewinders and my stepson called dibs on the other, he wants to race here on a dirt track. Which Leave me with none. So after xmas is over and I start getting an allowance again I'll be bugging you guys for advice on a new frame for me me me.

I'll find a way to return the favors.

Have a great night everyone
    

dave bright
    Chris I just did a chain saw conversion and IMHO yer better off with a kart crank. I have pto extension and dont really think its gonna work out. And watch out using thin head gasket if yer planning on pull starting it.


David Luciani
    dave,
please explain your concerns with the extension.
i'm planning on using some.
dave

[David Luciani]

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