Kart starters

[Jim Waltz]

Chuck.  

You crack me up sometimes.  

The POINT of the GEM starter nut with a sockethead cap screw in the end of it IS to start a lefthand thread engine from the PTO side.  That is exactly what it is for, and why GEM made two different style of nuts.  One PTO, one flywheel.

The flywheel is NOT the only side from which you can start a lefthand thread engine.

Teddy will correct himself once he thinks about it for a while.  And actually, he didn't say the "only" way is to start from the flywheel side, just that he thinks it's the "better" way.  He doesn't have to correct himself at all.  That's the nice thing about opinions.

And, I don't just want to sell starter tips.  I make them because I needed some, and the previous maker stopped making them.  I do it mainly as a service to our fellow vintage karters.  I won't use a plug in starter without that little accessory, and no one else should either.

Oh, and Chuck, your mother wears Army boots........
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Ha!

You better be laughing now, Chuck.

[Jim Waltz]

Starting from the flywheel side is most common. If your West Bend is a right hand engine, the crank has left hand threads on both ends of the crank. Therefore, starting from the flywheel end tightens the nut. No further issue. If, for some reason, you are forced to start a RH engine from the clutch end, you must jam the starter nut with a right hand screw or bolt that is screwed into the GEM clutch nut and bears against the end of the crank. If you use a nut starter, just pulling the starter socket off the nut when the engine catches is very easy. Earlier starters had a Bendix overrunning clutch to accommodate the engine starting, but later starters have proven this unnecessary. By the way, Coleman makes a Siamese starter for dual engine karts that has a thru shaft so you can start off either end. this is so you may start one engine off the flywheel nut, and the other off the clutch nut. I've had one for several years, and I won't use anything else. If you are running only a single engine, one extension shaft may be removed so it won't be in your way. It takes three minutes to re-install the extension so you may start your dual kart. Ted

Teddy, good post.  The idea of the cap screw jamming against the end of the crank is not all that easy to understand, but it works like a charm.  Good job.

[doug tenney]

Starting off of a clockwise PTO shaft that has LH threads:
Yup, it's true, every once in a blue moon the whole nut and SHCS come zipping off, and you have to dodge the other karts on the grid as you sprint back to your pit for the wrenches.
In my case, starting off of the FW would require a really, really long shaft, a CCW starter and then I'd have to trust the volunteer on the grid to not dent my chrome Chilton tank.
I also worried about snapping the little 3/8" threaded end off of my Mac crank, but so far it hasn't happened. I heard someone say that a gear reduction starter would be more likely to do that, and I'd guess that's true.

So Jim W, is it true that you paid for the roof on your house and a trip to Hawaii selling those hex tips? Lol

[Jim Waltz]

Doug,

I love it when we slip into "humor" mode on the Forum.

Interesting observation about your experience with the hex starter nut unwinding itself.

I have always used blue LOCTITE and torque to 25 ft lbs just like I do my KT 100's, and I've never had a nut come off.

And, yes, I owe my Maui properties to the landslide profits from my hex starter tips. I have crews working double shifts to pump those babies out.

Say, I've got a bridge you might be interested in........

[Richard Stamile]

so if you have a Mcculloch what do you need to start them , a Coleman starter and what goes on the
a ball hex and a socket bolt on the pto part of the crank. there are new Coleman starter on ebay but
they come with a 3/4 inch socket that is for stating there generators , let me know what i need that you
make
Richard,

[ted johnson]

Richard, my Coleman has 3/8" square drives on the starter extension shaft(s), so I can use either a good quality Allen hex Jimmy Waltz ball tip or an impact hex socket. Brad Coleman will custom make you extension shafts of whatever length you want. Mine is fairly long, as my engines are all center mount. This starter has a gear reduction, and is as strong as a Mack truck. Here's Mr. Coleman's contact:

Brad Coleman
Coleman starters
thebeststarters@yahoo.com
Coleman Products
1708 Willox Court
Fort Collins, CO 80524
970 482-5385

Remember that when you start a RH West Bend (LH threads) from the clutch side, you're starting on the jam bolt that screws into the GEM starter nut, so you are not trying to loosen the nut, you're tightening the jam bolt against the crank end. If you're starting a Mac off the clutch end, it's right hand thread, so you're tightening the nut. The Mac needs a jam bolt on the FLYWHEEL end, but I'm unaware of any Mac starter nuts that have a LH thread in the outer end for a jam bolt. Maybe a Mac guy will correct me on this. I always use a Hartman starter nut adapter that bolts into the two puller holes in the Mac flywheel. Someone was making these. Does anyone know if they're still being made? Ted

[Richard Stamile]

Ted there a seller JEGS on ebay selling the Coleman Starter for a good price i think i will
order one if it starts Karts it will start my snow blower that i can't stand another winter
pulling my brains out as far as karts go will wait to see what kind of clutch i am getting

Thanks Richard,

[doug tenney]

Sorry to beat this LH/RH topic to death... but...
I recently bought a new Mc92/Mc93 starter nut from Terry Ives, to use with my RevGrip clutch.  Similar to the starter nuts James W described above, it has 3/8-24 RH female threads on one end, and 3/8-24 LH female threads on the other.

BTW, Mc92 and Mc93 have LH threads on the PTO (as well as no keyway, and 0.100" longer PTO, so that space chain won't eat into the block).

[David Luciani]

bill shelley did a run of the hartman style bolt on flywheel starter nuts.
not cheap but very nicely done.
i'm pretty sure he'd do another run if a few people express interest.

they are my "go to" starter set up on singles .

pully starting is my next favorite for mcculloch and west bend 580's i haven't ever run an 820 so i can't comment.
the down side of pullys is i've seen way to many people exerting too much side load pulling back too hard.
using a hand held pully start reduces the pressure ,no leverage, but they can get heavy towards end of day.
the newer gear reduced ones though not very vintage are the best pully starters i've come across and side loading them has never been an issue in my experience.

starting mccullochs on the clutch side is my last option as i've had horrible luck.
the worst wrong starters being used and the clutch lying on the starting grid ,broken hartman starter nuts run a close second.
typically i think that's just my luck most everyone else uses the clutch starter nuts with good effect.
i forget whose stuff chuck sells but their starter nuts for the third bearings are my new go to for open cover hartmans.
the extension for the bearing is plenty long to provide alot of thread tension for the starter jam nut so far no issues from that set up.
jims starter hex is an excellent pairing with either chucks or bills hex starters.
oppsie just plugged a product or two.